Cinquillo

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Postby zaragenca » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:34 pm

I'm trying to do a the articles but there is sabotage.Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby zaragenca » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:03 pm

The Cinquillo…Background….My stepfather,(and father of my sister),is from Zaragoza,(Spain),so when I was still a child, I went with him to..El Centro Vasco,El Centro Gallego,and El Centro Asturiano, obtaining a good dosification of Spanish folklor,also I went to the Jose Marti/ theatre where I have the opportunity to observe,Zarzuelas,Mazorcas,Musica flamenca,etc…I have played with two show/bands in which I have to play folkloric music,(including Spanish)….That exposure and experience together with research with other scholars in history and music get the conclusion of the following observation…The Cinquillo came to Cuba through the ‘Paso Doble,’ (as it was initially), it would be played with five consecutive notes which would have the accentuation in the first note, of the 2/4 time signature,(which was the time signature in that music at that time,(this is still the characteristic of that music,Flamenco, as it is played today’s)…From there it was incorporated into the Cuban/music on three differents stages in which some cosmetic modification were added and we know which musicians were involved on it…to be continued.Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby ABAKUA » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:04 am

zaragenca wrote:I'm trying to do a the articles but there is sabotage.Dr. Zaragemca

Sabotage? ???

Have you notified law enforcement?
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Postby davidpenalosa » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:50 am

zaragenca wrote:The Cinquillo came to Cuba through the ‘Paso Doble,’ (as it was initially), it would be played with five consecutive notes which would have the accentuation in the first note, of the 2/4 time signature,(which was the time signature in that music at that time...

Cinquillo:
X-XX-XX-
- is one of the most common rhythmic motifs in Africa. It is especially common in the music of Bantu peoples. Of course it's not called "cinquillo" in Africa, but it is the identical pattern and in Africa it is independent of any European time signatures. You can hear it in the guagua part of the Bantu-based Cuban rhythm makuta, but there are countless other rhythms were you find it. The rhythmic pattern was certainly brought to Cuba via the slave trade.
-David




Edited By davidpenalosa on 1203069149
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Postby zaragenca » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:11 pm

Brother David, the path which you are going now was traveled for me before,(this people are my ancestors), so I know since I was in Cuba the root of percutive articulation of these African/Civilizations…The issue is not whether the Africans would have Cinquillo in their drumming pattern, the issue is how it was incorporated into the Contradanza and later the Danzon, and the fact that the Cinquillo was already used in the Capillas,(religion),and folklore music without the intervention of the Bantu people in Cuba..and as a matter of facts the ‘Araras’,(which also use the Cinquillo in some of their drumming patterns), arrived to Cuba and were organized into Cabildos before the Bantus),..but that is not the issue here… so then I have to ask some questions…. Who were the people getting the Cinquillo, into the Contradanza and later the Danzon,(according with your research)..Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby davidpenalosa » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:07 pm

zaragenca wrote:Who were the people getting the Cinquillo, into the Contradanza and later the Danzon,(according with your research)

Which people, according to my research? The CUBAN people. :)
The pattern was prevalent in many of the various ethnic musics on the island. It was "in the air". Giving any one ethnic group credit for the pattern is a stance that I believe cannot be proven.
-David
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Postby zaragenca » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:55 pm

Ok brother David, let me take you there.......After the Spanish brought the Cinquillo with their liturgical and folkloric music,(Paso Doble), one of the first cubans using the musical/articulation,(Cinquillo), was Esteban Salas,(1725-1803),but he was working the European Musical Structure…. The Military Bands, incorporated it.(Cinquillo), into their repertory when playing the Spanish folkloric music on special events and ceremonies…Now…one of the ‘Pioneer’ of the Orquestras Tipicas,..’Pioneer’ of the ‘Habaneras’, and ‘Pioneer’ of the musical structure which was used to create the foundation of the ‘Danzon’ was, the Afrocuban/musician, Claudio Jose Domingo Brindis de Salas,(1800-1872),with the Orquestra,’La Concha de Oro’, (which was the best musical group at that time), he was subject of antagonism and jealousy, and during the, ‘Conspiracion de la Escalera’,(Stair-Conpiracy),in Cuba, the Spanish used the excuse to advise him to get out of Cuba in order to avoid prosecution,he get out of Cuba for two years and realizing that he really didn’t have any reason to run,came back in 1848 and was put in jail for not following the advise, after getting out of jail,he formed a musical group,(including his two sons and toured the country taking his pioneer work around the country….to be continued..Dr. Zaragemca
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u there....
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Postby davidpenalosa » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:10 pm

zaragenca wrote:the Spanish brought the Cinquillo with their liturgical and folkloric music

Are denying the existence of cinquillo in African music?
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Postby zaragenca » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:17 pm

Brother David,did you read the post which I did right before this one?....Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby davidpenalosa » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:21 pm

Sorry, I forgot what you wrote. Please continue...
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Postby zaragenca » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:48 pm

Another cuban creating music with the cuban flavor,(and, use of the Cinquillo), was Manuel Saumell,(1817-1870)....The second afrocuban which was successful in Havana, with an the Orquestra Tipica,'La Flor de Cuba', was the Clarinetist,(Juan de Dios Alfonso),(1825-1877),following the pioneer work of 'Brindis de Salas' in the continuation of musical/structural of the 'Habanera' and later the Dazon,he capitalized in the situation of the,(escalera conspiracy),in 1844, which put some musicians out of the field and jumped in to continue the structuration of the cuban music to create music...During the, 'ten years war,' for independency,(1868-1878), he was playing at, the Teatro Villanueva, in the year 1869, when the spanish militias attacked the people which were asisting to the function that day, creating an antagonic situation against him for which he also was discredit in relation of his musical work in relation which the structuration of the Dazon..To be continued.Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby davidpenalosa » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:49 pm

what is your source...what book(s), wikepidia?
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Postby zaragenca » Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:38 pm

This movement was also followed by the musicians which went to Mexico during the,(Ten years war in Cuba ,1868-1878),..Enrique Guerrero,(pianist),took the Dazon to Mexico,(long before the inaguration in Cuba by Failde)...Another cuban musician,Jose Jacinto Cuevas, was the director/fundador), of the Orquestra Symphonica del Estado de Yucatan from,(1874-1877), followed by his brother,Justo Cuevas Pachon, which was the director also,(1877-1885),...Back in Cuba, two other musicians, Reimundo Valenzuela,(1848-1905),(Trombon),...and Jose Aleman,(1846-1924), continued the legacy of 'Brindis de Salas', with the formation of Orquestras Tipicas represented with their names..then the legacy was followed,(and clearly, followed,not started), By Miguel failde,(1853-1921)...Miguel failde was playing with his two brother,Candido failde,(Trombon),and Eduardo failde,(Clarinete) in orquestras around, 1871,with Pacho Morales,(violin)...but, by the time he was born and ready to play,the pioneers musicians already had the structuration of the,'Habaneras' and the Danzon...but, some of them were politically/incorrect at that time, and others went to exile to Mexico,..so the spanish scholars at that time set up a new candidate,(Failde), new date(1879), and a new place,(Matanzas),for the inaiguration of the Danzon in Cuba...Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby Garvin » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:08 pm

davidpenalosa wrote:what is your source...what book(s), wikepidia?

Probably the "International Club of Percussionists" private archives...

I must say this is an amazingly dense amount of information regardless of its accuracy or origin.
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Postby davidpenalosa » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:52 pm

Garvin wrote:this is an amazingly dense amount of information

... and none of it relating directly to cinquillo. Here's a quote from "Music of Cuba" by Alejo Carpentier:

"The cinquillo is of obvious African origin. (pg. 148) That it existed in Cuba before the arrival of the 'French [Haitian] blacks' is quite likely. But it must have been confined to the slave barracks, since it passed into salon dancing in the days of the Haitian immigration. In the neighboring isle, [cinquillo's] presence was so active that it was incorporated into the contradanza." (pg. 149]

This assertion that cinquillo was incorporated into the French contradanza in Haiti before it came to Cuba is a facinating idea. I haven't seen the evidence though.
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