Conga history and makers - Need your input on ideas

Let's discuss about the origin and history of this beautiful instrument...

Postby taikonoatama » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:54 pm

I had a long talk with Jay Bereck of Skin on Skin the other day, and something he said got me thinking about something we need on this site, but I'm not sure about the best way to go about it.

He started telling me these great stories/anecdotes about the history of conga making, from what he learned from studying Vergara's drums (from repairing Mongo's, initally) and then stories about developing his own drums. Fascinating stuff, especially from someone of his stature.

My idea is this: We need an organized place/way to share this type of information. A post under "CongaSets" entitled "The history of the conga - drum making and drum makers" would get messy real fast. There have been a couple of attempts in this regard, and though there have been some great posts, I feel the need for a more systematic/organized approach, perhaps based more specifically on each maker (Vergara, Skin on Skin, LP, Gon Bops, Junior's, Valje/Akbar, JCR, Timbas Ismael, Meinl, etc.). Obviously, the history itself doesn't necessarily follow a categorized model such as this, but doing so feeds into another need we have...

Say you had been at a rumba in the park on Sunday afternoon, and someone was just tearing it up with some drum you hadn't seen/heard before. And, even though you know in your mind that it's the player and not the drum, a lightbulb went on as you looked down at your lameass Aspire tumba and listened closely and thought, "My God! What the f*** is this thing??? This is not a drum! THAT, is a drum! What is that? Man, that would be so sweet to play/have..."

And you start dreaming. And saving.

And then you start talking to people and hit this site and Google and the rec.music.makers.percussion.hand-drum discussion group and so on and you want to learn about the history of the maker of that drum and get recommendations on different woods and models and years (for second-hand drums) and hardware and skins and where to get the drums and so on. As things stand, this knowledge is just scattered all over the place.

So are these two areas - the history of each maker and the sort of buyer's guide - separate? We could just post about 20 or so posts in Conga/sets, one for each maker, for both history and the information you're usually concerned about when buying a drum. Of course, this organizational model gets tricky when you start having posts comparing different makers, but what else can we do?

I've brought up a number of issues that I really don't necessarily have the answers to, but in doing so I'm hoping that someone else might be able to help.

Your brother in drumming,

Taiko




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Postby Berimbau » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:43 pm

Well I think Taiko has a real good idea here! Anyone willing to share historical photos, drawings or old catalogs would help us to build a nice online archive. Such a resource would be available for musicians, scholars, and hobbyists to satiate their social scientific side or just to help identify that mystery tumba selling for $35.00 on e-bay!!
Let me first suggest that folks check out Nolan Warden's "History of the Conga Drum" published by P.A.S. and also available online from his yahoo group, "latinperc." Although his article has the larger scope of the Cuban development of the tumbadoras and their subsequent global dissemination through the work of Chano, Candido, Mongo, Armando, Patato, et.al, he also considers the serious issues of construction and technological innovations as various makers sought to improve the tumbas by making them tunable or experimented with fiberglass materials. No doubt that technological developments went a long way to selling congas to the general public. Anyone here old enough to remember holding a tack-on tumba upside down over a can of sterno or a candle? Not too much fun!!! Maybe Nolan would let us reprint it here?
I look forward to everyone's comments/suggestions on Taiko's thought provoking proposal.

Saludos,


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Postby ralph » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:07 pm

we can also get together info, and bios on famous drum makers, such as an article written about Junior Tirado...you can still peep it at descarga.com under journal archives, written by Eddie Bobe. One thing that really saddened me was that i wanted to do an in depth interview with Junior but i couldn't get together with him before he went into a coma...this history is extremely important to keep alive not only for the culture but the artisans themselves whom make a living off of the instruments that they make which by the way are no piece of cake....
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Postby Isaac » Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:15 am

an Afternoon with Cali Rivera
Interview with Cali Rivera of JCR Percussion

by Isaac Gutwilik
World Percussion & Rhythm Magazine March 2005

It’s a cold but sunny thursday afternoon at
JCR Percussion Co. Juan Calixto Rivera is one of the last
craftsmen of handmade latin instruments in the USA.

WPR: Cali, when did you first start your company?

Cali: Well, it’s not when this company began. It really all started when I was
a little kid. My father was a professional instrument maker (luthier),
of guitars and cuatros. He used to tell me “don’t go away because you’re gonna
help me”. Instead of helping him, I cut wood and started making little drums.
I was about 10 years old.

WPR: So it’s something you grew up with ...

Cali: Yeah, that’s right. My father is the one who started it all. I learned a lot
from watching him and doing things for him, but I came out on the other side.
Instead of making like him . . . He used to tell me “ I want you to learn how to make guitars
because guitars can give you a lot of money”, and I said “ well, I don’t like this, I like drums”.
There were a lot of people coming in for guitars and cuatros, buying them
or fixing them, but I told my father I don’t know if I can learn this. I liked
to play baseball better and making drums.

WPR: You had a great chance to learn woodworking.

Cali: #### yes! I learned to know wood which you have to know for drums also.
We do a lot of work here in wood.

WPR: Where were you born?

Cali: I was born and grew up in Coamo, Puerto Rico. Not a big, big town, but a lot of
good musicians came out of my hometown - like Bobby Capo,
my close friend Bobby Valentin and many others.

WPR: When did you decide to move to New York? Where you a
musician at that time?

Cali: I was a musician since I was a kid. My father was also a musician and so were
my brothers. All of them played guitar and sang. There were a lot of guitar players in the family!
A lot of people used to come over and play, but you had to have drums too. I used to help out on drums
- a little conguita and bongos. I used to watch the older guys come over and play bongos.
When I graduated from high school at 17, my oldest brother was already in NYC at the time. My brother suggested
to my father “ Why don’t we bring him here so he can go to school”. I came here and started school but didn’t like school, so instead I got a job. On the side I started learning to play drums and timbales. I started going from here to there playing and went from my Bronx job to evening rehearsals in Brooklyn. I started getting work as a timbalero plus I had my
regular job, so I was earning my money.
In those days it was very tough to get a good cowbell and so I thought if no one’s making them, I’m gonna have to do it
myself and that’s when I started - I made my own bells. I was a young guy. They weren’t the best bells in the world, but it was helping me, and from there a lot of people started finding out who’s this guy
who’s making bells and they started calling me. . . and I started . . . that’s many many years back!

WPR: You started working as a timbalero. Who were some of the people you played for?

Cali: The big Bands of the day were Tito Rodriguez, Machito, Tito Puente, La Playa Sextette. . . and there was also a guy who came to NYC from Puerto Rico named Joe Valle. He was one of the best singers in Puerto Rico with a lot of hits.
(He was the singer with the Cesar Concepcion Orquesta ). He made his own band in New York. I didn’t join the band
because I was still too young at the time. I always liked his band and went to see them. One day I met his son who
played in and managed the band, and I gave him my number - and they called me! I started working with Joe and I spent about 12 years with them. I made a good living, because he was one of the popular singers. They used to call him the
Frank Sinatra of Puerto Rico, because he sang softly and beautifully. Joe Valle was one of the best.
WPR: Do you remember some of the other band members?

Cali: Those years, the bands were a combination of Latin and American guys. One of the guys I remember well
was Doc Cheatham. He was a great trumpet player who was with us for 5 or 6 years. He was a real nice guy -
quiet and polite, and we said all he had to do was talk with his trumpet. There was no bongocero . . Joe’s son
was the conguero and I was doing the timbales and drums, you know, we did the job we were supposed to do
for that big band.

WPR: What groups did you play with after that?

Cali: Joe moved back to P.R. So I went from band to band, a little here, a little there. All of a sudden I started
working with Yomo Toro ! He’ one of the best cuatristas. Yomo was one of the Fania All-Stars but he also had his own group. We were doing a lot of work. By that time I was a bongocero and singer for Yomo. He loved my playing & singing and I stayed with him for about 30 years.

WPR: Wow! That’s a long time! When did you last play together?

Cali: I did work with him the end of 2003, but he’s since cut back his schedule doing only occasional soloist
guest appearances. To play with him was a great experience, not just musically. We did a lot of travelling - Europe,
Japan, Hawaii, all over the USA and Canada.

WPR: I saw you perform in the 80s with Yomo at Harborfront in Toronto, but we didn’t meet until 1990.
Back to the cowbells for a moment...

Cali: When I decided to make cowbells, my first problem was how I’m gonna find good metal for that? It was the
early 60s. I found that my compadre, the godfather of my girl, was a foreman in a metal cabinet place. I spoke to him
and he got me a couple of pieces of metal, and that’s when I started drawing the bells. I only had some ideas in my
mind up till then. I didn’t have a good bell for a model at the time. It was tough . . . When you spoke to the professionals,
they wouldn’t tell you where they got theirs from. They ‘d say “ I took it off a cow” or “ Oh... its from Africa” but they don’t really play this kind of sound there. They didn’t want to tell you, because they didn’t want you to have the sound that they had.
Now, I’m here and everyone knows me, and I like to help them. What I do, I ask what sound you like?
Medium pitch, high pitch, low pitch, whatever you want. If we don’t have it we’ll make it for those guys, because
we want them to sound good like the sounds of the 60s and 70s. That’s now.
There’s a few big companies making a lot of bells, bongos and things like that, but it’s not the same thing that we do
- which is hand made stuff. We’re looking for the right sound. These other companies are simply looking more & more
money and don’t care what they throw on the street. They don’t really know what the true quality sounds are for
latin music.

WPR: You’ve kept your company very small. Is this part of your business plan or philosophy?
How many people Work with you?

Cali: You know how we make the bells here. If you’re gonna go to mass production it’s gonna become the same as the other companies. You set up up heavy equipment, and start banging - bam, bam, bam, bam. If the first bell is no good, then the 2nd
and 3rd, and hundreds of bells are no good. We make a little setup by hand, we weld it - if it comes out good, thats the one
it’s gonna be . . . if it’s no good for one reason, we change it until we get the right thing. I’m not going to spend my metal,
my good metal that I have, doing something that is no good. So it it has to be good because we spend a lot of money on the
best steel. We won’t put our stuff on the street unless they have a good sound.
It’s a small company and a small workspace, so you can’t fit a lot of people in here. We don’t want people making the wrong cuts. We have 3 guys and my wife and I. If we need more people in the future that’s a possibility but right now
I’m very happy with the guys I have.

WPR: I see a lot of new bongos around here now. Tell me a bit about the JCR bongos and congas.

Cali: When the bongos were first created , they were creeated with solid pieces of wood. Thats when you get that beautiful sound - you put your hand there and you know you’re getting the best. I said to myself, if I’m going to make a good set of
bongos - it has to be that way. When they created that in Cuba, that’s the way they used to make it. Take the piece of tree,
put it on a lathe and from there you get the bongo . . . and that’s what I’ve been doing. If I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna keep
doing it that way. Sometimes it’s very tough to get the wood because this wood has to be the best - the mahogany,
white oak, cherry wood. This wood is also very expensive. A lot of people don’t believe in doing it this way anymore, but
we’re very stubborn. The wood has become protected so the wait time is longer. By the time the wood arrives we’ve sold
many of the bongos because the people have been waiting. We work very slowly and surely.
My next goal is to put out nice conga drums - like the way they used to make them in
Cuba a long time ago, with the steel bands, alma inside, and also we use good skins - mule and cow hide from
Venezuela. The bongos are already made and the congas are next.


WPR: Cali, Your custom timbales and bells were recently acquired and inaugurated into the permanent collection
of the Metropolitan Museum in New York City. That’s quite an honor, tell me more about that?

Cali: That was one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever had happen. The museum has a lot of old instruments that will
be going into a new wing. They didn’t bother much with these type of latin instruments in the past, but now because there’s so many Spanish speaking people here, they’re interested. They were looking for artisanos, people who work by hand. Other percussion companies offered their beautiful instruments to display, but the museum and curator was interested in something made mostly by hand and that sounded good. Their search ended here. Working for the museum in organizing their latin music
educational programs and the acquisition were Jose Obando and Ana Flores. This will be nice when I grow old and retire, or
am long gone, and my grandkids, when they grow up will be able to go there and see what I made - It’s a wonderful feeling.
I’m only a worker doing the job I’ve been put here to do, and doing my best.


~ Isaac, funkytradition@yahoo.com
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Postby ralph » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:51 pm

The "Stradivarius" of conga makers


Profile: Natalio Tirado Ruiz "Junior" Master Drum-Maker
by Eddie Bobé
After a ten year absence from the music scene, the renowned master conga drum craftsman Natalio Tirado Ruiz, AKA Junior, has reappeared and brought a set of conga drums into existence.

I have known Junior for twenty years. I can tell you that, in his mind, heart and soul, he truly believes that his drums are his children and not just a compilation of wood, iron and cueró. And, as a player, I can assure you that they are alive.

Junior's genius began in Puerto Rico. At the age of fourteen he would borrow his brother-in-law's drum. His brother-in-law, Raul Beltran, played with Puerto Rican conjuntos like Farona-X and El Taune and also had a gig on a radio program on Saturdays. Typically, Raul would hunt for his drum, usually finding it at the corner jam session, and scold Junior for making off with it. "One day I'll have my own drum!" Junior would say.

The answer, for Junior, was the town woodworking factory. Junior spied on a wood-worker shaving a plank of wood, and waited patiently until the worker left to go to the bathroom. Junior was a full two street blocks away - with the block of wood, before screams of anger filled the town of Quintana, Alto Rey. By now Junior was home, and out of breath, with a block of wood under his arm. He had received a shaving blade as a gift and had borrowed tools to replicate the dimensions of Raul's drum. Soon Junior gave birth to the first of what many consider to be the Stradivarius of conga drums. He branded it with his initials using a hot wire.

In 1960, Arsenio Rodriguez came to Puerto Rico and Junior became a member of his conjunto as a back-up singer. He came to New York with Arsenio's band and he's been here ever since. He opened up his drum making shop in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. A friend brought him to Manny's Music store (a large instrument store in Manhattan). Manny was astonished to learn that the drums were not made in Cuba, but at a small secluded operation in Brooklyn.

Junior's reputation as a drum-maker began to be acknowledged worldwide. His congas and bongos can be found from Europe to the Middle East. His drums appeared on the cover of the classic record Concepts In Unity by Grupo Folklorico Experimental Nuevayorkino. Last year, when Conjunto Folklorico de Cuba toured the U.S., they came to Junior to repair their drums. Among the many artists who have had the good fortune to own Junior's drums are Mongo Santamaria, Jerry Gonzalez, Ray Barretto, Steve Berrios and the late, great, Frankie Malabe, Alberto Serrano, and Frankie Rodriguez, who had a custom set made that were as light as a feather. Recently added to the list is yours truly, Eddie Bobé.
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Postby tamboricua » Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:00 pm

Very interesting topic! Other famous drum makers names that come to mind are:

The late Ismael Ramos, maker of the famous "Timbas Ismael" in Sierra Bayamón, Puerto Rico.

The late Carlos E. Landaeta, better known as "Pan con Queso" from Venezuela. Maker of the five tuning lugs bongó.

Héctor Rocha, better known as "El Piernas" from Cali, Colombia.

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio




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Postby Berimbau » Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:40 pm

I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying this thread!!! It would be nice to hear about some of the oldtimers who were crafting tumbas in the 1940's and 1950's, when the Cuban conga revolution really went international. Many questions still remain unanswered, so let me toss them to the wind in hopes of an answer.
1.) What happened to the initial popularity of the conical shaped conga drum from Santiago?
2.) Why did the barrel shape win out?
3.) Who really did create the first "tunable" conga?
4.) How were the tumbadoras first exported and marketed internationally?
5.) Does anyone in this forum know anything about guys like the Vagara brothers or Echotone's Frank Mesa? I do know that while it was still legal, Mongo bought some Vagara tubs back from one of his final Cuban trips. I've heard that was the model for the original Gon Bops.
6.) In the wake of the export of Cuban music and instruments there seems to have come a number of local reinterpretations throughout Latin-America. When did such local drum traditions as Puerto Rican bomba or Brasilian atabaques get displaced by Cuban tumbadoras?


Saludos,


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Postby tamboricua » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:21 am

Some "Timbas Ismael" drums that showed up the other day on E-bay.

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio


Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... Ismael.jpg
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Postby ralph » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:17 pm

Very nice drums, those Timbas, hey Jorge, you seem to know what going on on the island, i read somewhere that they still make Timbas Ismael, but someone else does it, is this true, or am i mistaken...peace...
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Postby JohnnyConga » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:06 pm

Vaya Jorge ..I used to have a 14 inch tumbadora made byIsmael that came from "Casa Latina" en "El Barrio" de Nueva York. It was a beautiful drum and boomed when it was hit. I also had the pleasure of meeting "Pan con Queso" in Caracas, back in 1977, when I was touring with Sergio Mendes.. I was taken to his humble apartment in some Barrio, by a local conguero....my plan was to pick up some bells and claves...his apartment was "litered" by wood and conga shells, maracas, and other stuff...we were introduced and I told him who I was and that I played. Well he sat me down and asked me to play something for him...a kinda test I guess...so I picked up a drum he had in the corner played a bit for him , he smiled and then asked me what I would like...I told him about the bells and the claves, made with cuban wood, that he would bring from Cuba to make his congas...BTW an original "Pan con Queso" conga sounds like no other conga I HAVE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE!...I can't explain it except that the drum can almost play itself, a sound that I continously seek in my conga drums, but can't seem to reach....he used Cuban Cohiba wood for his drums, with an "alma" and they just sounded incredible like his bongos, with the "5" keys.....so I paid him for the bells and claves that I was going to pick up the next day, but unfortunatly Sergio decided to leave a day earlier for another gig we had back in the States and I was never able to get my bells, claves and maracas....and never saw him again either, except one time on Venezuelen TV with a folklore group he had, playin gall the instruments he made.....he was a true "Artist"......."JC" Johnny Conga...PS...all the Salseros from NY-Columbia-Puerto Rico would visit him just for his maracas alone.....which have now been "copied" by others......
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Postby tamboricua » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:32 pm

ralph wrote:Very nice drums, those Timbas, hey Jorge, you seem to know what going on on the island, i read somewhere that they still make Timbas Ismael, but someone else does it, is this true, or am i mistaken...peace...

Hi Ralph,

Hope all is well! "Timbas Ismael" as far as I know is still in business operated by Ismael's widow and his son. Last time I was there, they mainly have in stock JCR's and Héctor Rocha "El Piernas" products, panderos de Plena, as well as unmounted skin heads, accesories, etc. I can't recall seeing "Timbas Ismael" drums anywhere in the store for sale. I'll check if they are making drums again.

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio




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Postby tamboricua » Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:44 pm

JohnnyConga wrote:Vaya Jorge ..I used to have a 14 inch tumbadora made byIsmael that came from "Casa Latina" en "El Barrio" de Nueva York. It was a beautiful drum and boomed when it was hit. I also had the pleasure of meeting "Pan con Queso" in Caracas, back in 1977, when I was touring with Sergio Mendes.. I was taken to his humble apartment in some Barrio, by a local conguero....my plan was to pick up some bells and claves...his apartment was "litered" by wood and conga shells, maracas, and other stuff...we were introduced and I told him who I was and that I played. Well he sat me down and asked me to play something for him...a kinda test I guess...so I picked up a drum he had in the corner played a bit for him , he smiled and then asked me what I would like...I told him about the bells and the claves, made with cuban wood, that he would bring from Cuba to make his congas...BTW an original "Pan con Queso" conga sounds like no other conga I HAVE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE!...I can't explain it except that the drum can almost play itself, a sound that I continously seek in my conga drums, but can't seem to reach....he used Cuban Cohiba wood for his drums, with an "alma" and they just sounded incredible like his bongos, with the "5" keys.....so I paid him for the bells and claves that I was going to pick up the next day, but unfortunatly Sergio decided to leave a day earlier for another gig we had back in the States and I was never able to get my bells, claves and maracas....and never saw him again either, except one time on Venezuelen TV with a folklore group he had, playin gall the instruments he made.....he was a true "Artist"......."JC" Johnny Conga...PS...all the Salseros from NY-Columbia-Puerto Rico would visit him just for his maracas alone.....which have now been "copied" by others......

Hola JC,

Man, what an honor! Thanks for sharing that story with us. What ever happened to your "Timbas Ismael" 14" Super Tumba?

When I was growing up back on the island my brother who happen to be a percussionist too, used to play on "Timbas Ismael" drums. :p

He went crazy and sold those babies. :(

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio




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Postby JohnnyConga » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:48 am

Vaya Tamboricua...I believe I traded it for some other drum...the story of that tumbadora deals with "theft" and somebody almost getting their throat cut....but that's another story...."JC" Johnny Conga.... :D
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Postby tamboricua » Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:12 pm

ralph wrote:Very nice drums, those Timbas, hey Jorge, you seem to know what going on on the island, i read somewhere that they still make Timbas Ismael, but someone else does it, is this true, or am i mistaken...peace...

Hi Ralph,

Hope all is well! I recently spend couple of days on the island and got a chance to visit the Timbas Ismael shop in Sierra Bayamón. Mainly they are selling LP's, Meinl, Matador drums, percussion accesories,(conga-bongo hooks, cowbells, maracas, etc.), and panderos de Plena by some of the best pandero artisans on the island, but unfortunately no "Timbas Ismael" drums. :(

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio
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Postby ralph » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:41 pm

tamboricua wrote:Hope all is well! I recently spend couple of days on the island and got a chance to visit the Timbas Ismael shop in Sierra Bayamón. Mainly they are selling LP's, Meinl, Matador drums, percussion accesories,(conga-bongo hooks, cowbells, maracas, etc.), and panderos de Plena by some of the best pandero artisans on the island, but unfortunately no "Timbas Ismael" drums. :(

thanks for checking for Timbas Jorge...by the way i heard of another cat in PR, who makes bata, conga, panderetas, etc...
i think he goes be Del Valle, heard of him?
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