Names for Congas

Let's discuss about the origin and history of this beautiful instrument...

Postby ralph » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:59 pm

bongosnotbombs wrote:Ralph,

The quinto is not always the improvising drum in rumba settings, sometimes it is the tumba.

Dr. Olavo Alén Rodriguez, also made mention of the caja, which I had overlooked until now, thanks for causing me to look it up.

but it sounds from your post as if caja describes a role in the music versus others using it to describe a drums size?

It seems some names are actually terms describing a role in the music, some names are according to size or kind of drum with applications spanning from different percussion traditions.

The caja could very well be the actual biggest drum in many and most circumstances...but I see it more functional to say that aside from the "caja" being the biggest drum in appropriate ensemble...its probably more correct to distinguish that it is the drum w/ the lowest sound/el sonido mas grave.....
As far as rumba goes...if you are talking about improvisations as far as what tumbadoras are doing while playing guarapachanguero and other variations, or what the Muñequitos tumbador does when he goes back and forth w/ the tres dos...than yes they are improvising, actually I would say conversing, but if you analyze what the dancers are doing, the only person that is really improvising and playing in accord w/ the dancers is quinto...at least in the traditional sense...now if a bunch of guys got together and decided to play rumba w/ the quinto holding tiempo and the tumbador improvising than what can I say...it can happen




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Postby bongosnotbombs » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:27 pm

I confess to not being quite as educated in rumba as it seems you are Ralph, but it has always been my impression that in Bembe the quinto is the time keeper? and the other drums are doing the improvising or conversing?

I know very little in regards to dancing and drumming in rumba, except a little bit wth the guanguanco dancing.
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Postby ralph » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:43 pm

bongosnotbombs wrote:I confess to not being quite as educated in rumba as it seems you are Ralph, but it has always been my impression that in Bembe the quinto is the time keeper? and the other drums are doing the improvising or conversing?
.

But your not incorrect...if you are playing a bembe w/ 3 drums matanzas style than if you are playing quinto you would be playing a pattern that is similar to what an okonkolo does in a bata battery...but bembe is not rumba...I think thats where the issue lies....rumba is guaguanco, yambu, columbia....

Yoruba music is bata, guiro, bembe
Congo music is yuka, makuta, palo
abakua music is efi/efo/brikamo....
etc....so the above is not rumba, although the above has influence rumba heavily...

in bembe you are playing a caja, a cachimbo and a mula...the caja improvises which would be your low drum, if you are on the mula you are playing a drum equivalent to the tres golpes in rumba, and if you are playing the cachimbo you are playing the highest pitch drum or most likely what most would call a quinto...but the names don't carry over...so your not wrong they are just two different styles of music...




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Postby bongosnotbombs » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:23 pm

That is confusing about the rumba and bembe.

Is it possible that the name rumba has different uses..

Like Rumba as a pronoun for a style of music,

then rumba as a noun like "have a rumba" "go to a rumba".

Thus Bembe would not be Rumba music, it is Yoruba, as you say, but surely bembe is played at rumbas by rumberos?
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Postby ralph » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:38 pm

yeah well rumba or rumbon, are generic terms for saying, "let's jam", but traditional bembe is what it is...and traditional guaguanco, yambu, columbia, are what they are...so you gotta take rumba with a grain of salt...like if i were to get together to rumbear (to form a rumba) with some people we would probably play, guaguanco, columbia, bembe, abakua, palo...whatever but they wouldn't all fall under the rumba category necessary...so yes if a bunch of rumberos get together chances are they may play a bembe, but it wouldn't be rumba, and it wouldn't necessarily matter...i mean no one isn't going to be out there w/ a notebook and say, "sorry guys can't play that rhythm because it doesn't fall under "rumba""



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Postby bongosnotbombs » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:47 pm

That's kind of the way I took it.
It's just good to get things really clear sometimes
for people who may be new to ths subject

Anyways thanks a lot for adding some good input to this thread ralph!




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Postby ralph » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:33 pm

just an fyi...if your playing congas in an afro caribbean setting, congas take the place of other instruments in many styles of music.
here's a list to go by.....where congas can and have been used in placed of other drums...

Bata
iya- (largest low pitch drum) improvisational drum
itotele- (mid pitch) also improvises according to what iya is doing
okonkolo- (high pitch)

Abakua- (efi/efo)
biankome- (high pitch)
kuchi yerema- (mid pitch)
obiapa- (low pitch)
bonko enchemiya- (low pitch) improvisational drum
itones- (guagua/cata)
ekon- (bell/campana)
erikundi- (caixixi- like shakers)

Palo
cachimbo- (high pitch)
mula- (low pitch)
caja- (low pitch) improvisational drum
guataca- (hoe bladel)

Bembe
(same as above) played on bembe drums, w/ or without sticks or played w/ guiros/agbes/chekeres

Iyesa
Iyesa Drums, played w/ sticks and agoggo bells

Rumba is probably the only form that probably used congas as their initial instrument although cajones were said to have been used before congas, as Rumba was developing, yuka drums may have been used? Instead of the conga drums that we know of today.

Rumba
quinto- (high pitch) improvising drum
tres dos/tres golpes/segundo- (mid pitch)
tumbador/dos golpes/tumba- (low pitch)
cajones of similar sizes can be used in addition or instead of congas
guagua/cata- (bamboo or woodblock)
claves-
chekere/agbe/guiro- (gourd)

does anyone have conga/comparsa instrumentation?
i imagine conga, sartenes (frying pans/car pistons), campanas (gangaria), bombo, snare? am i missing anything?

almost forgot...

bomba
primo/seguidor- (higher pitch) improvising drum
buleador- (low pitch)
maraca-

plena
requinto- (high pitch) improvising drum
punteador- (mid pitch)
seguidor- (low pitch)
guiro taino- (small taino gourd)

Dominican Palo
palo mayor- (low pitch) improvisational drum
palo menor- (high pitch)
guira (metal guiro that is used in popular dominican music)

i think there is alot of similarilty in that as far as afro caribbean music is concerned if you take music that has more direct african influences usually its the low drums that improvises, if you have music which is more creole or has more influence from either europe or native american influence than the higher pitch drum improvises....thats all i can muster for now...




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Postby tamboricua » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:19 pm

Vaya Ralph,

Very well done!!!

In the Bomba section the Primo drum is also known as Subidor not Seguidor.

Also don't forget the Cuá.

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio
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Postby ralph » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:35 pm

tamboricua wrote:Vaya Ralph,

Very well done!!!

In the Bomba section the Primo drum is also known as Subidor not Seguidor.

Also don't forget the Cuá.

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio

right on time Jorge!!

I knew I could count on you for some proofreading...Jorge is correct the subidor or primo is the drum that improvises during bomba, a good primo player will be able to mark a dancers steps to the "T"...and yes the indespesible "cua", similar to the guagua in rumba the cua hold together the rhythm of many a bomba rhythm and rest assured there are many, many bomba rhythms...holandes, xica, yuba, gracima, and many other that i can't think of or name, Jorge...would you oblige?
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Postby tamboricua » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:21 pm

ralph wrote:...holandes, xica, yuba, gracima, and many other that i can't think of or name, Jorge...would you oblige?

Some from the top of my head and that you didn't mention:

Seis Corrido
Corvé
Cuembé
Leró
Calindá
Belé

and many others...

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio
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Postby bongosnotbombs » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:17 am

Excellent post Ralph! Right on!
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Postby Bachikaze » Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:23 pm

This is a fascinating discussion (except for the Desi Arnaz argument).

In the Cuban world, I can't keep up with you folks in specific drum terminology, though I can hold my own when it comes to Brazil and Japan. But, as a linguist, I do know that there is a cultural difference when it comes to assigning exact labels on things, and that cultural distinction can frustrate musical scholars.

Some cultures love to categorize and label. They are more comfortable when they can give something a permanent name that never varies. The lines that divide one named category from another might be measured in centimeters/inches. They also often argue about the "real" names for things.

Many of the cultures that they study, however, are not quite so strict in their nomenclature. It seems that they don't draw such carefully defined lines between things, certainly not with a ruler. I imagine they have a hard time understanding the cultures that study them and their obsession with affixing names, carefully cataloged and indexed. They probably find it amusing.

I imagine the people who posted here are dead-on when they say that terminology is based on use and role, rather than size. When you're dealing with backyard construction, often originally made from barrels and packing boxes, it's pretty tough to assign standards. To further complicate things, names vary from region-to-region, town-to-town, ward-to-ward.

Brazil is a case in point. The instrument we call "surdo" is today made in a variety of sizes with standard heads to fit US drum company mass-production standards (i.e. measured in inches). They evolved from either alfaias (northeastern bombos) or the enlargement of repiniques (tenor "calling" drums) in the industrial cities. They acquired their name from the word for "deaf" and were distinguished soly on their role as a bass instrument, since they weren't much bigger than other, medium-pitched, drums. In the US, we today classify them based on their head diameters. In contrast, the Brazilians classify them by their role in a bateria, or drum ensemble. That is either primera, segundo, and tercero (in Rio) or fundo I, fundo II, virado I, virado II (in Bahia). Another Bahia group in the next neighborhood might use fundo I, fundo II, dobra I, dobra II. In all cases, the drums are named by their roles and relative pitch, not by size. They can be as small as 14"/16"/18" or as large as 24"/26"/29" in diameter.




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Postby Isaac » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:33 pm

Another name: MUSUNDU

Ralph, Thanks for that great list...
and Bachikaze for your Brazilian drum
descriptions.

On a remote tangent, but also african derived, I've been studying & learning
about the drums of Oman. The Slave trade and african culture went in all directions -
not just westward to the caribbean and the americas.

The Omanis moved their capital to Zanzibar ( a huge slave trading center) for several centuries
and absorbed the music of Africa. The Creole culture that ensued is known
as Swahili - a term you've probably heard. ..Yet some of the purer african forms
survived. The Bantu drums like congas ended up in South Arabia also.

The Barrel shaped Bomba drum is used in Oman and the other gulf emirates
in the music called "LEWA". They come in two sizes - a low and medium low.
Its called the LEWA drum.

Accompanying them is a set of conga type drums they call "MUSUNDU".
The lowest is played with one hand and one thick stick.

Musundu come in tall standing form or shorter conga sizes.
There's also a skinny Musundu held between the legs during parades
- very similar to the conical carnival drums of Cuban Comparsa.

Another group of African derived drums in arabia are very similar
to the tambora we see in Merengue. More often played with
the hands.

The come in 3 basic sizes, but like in many places the role they play
really defines the name more than the size. Different regions
use these basic names.
RAHMANI - double sided drum (like a Dounoum or Djundjun)
RAHMANI TAWIL - Longer and deeper tone.
KASIR - The smaller version playing around the basic drums is
a two sided goat skin drum, played with the hands
or with one hand & 1 sticks depending on the genre. ( similar to the smaller djembe support drum - Kenkeni)

The smallest of the two sided drums is called the MIRWAS.
It is apx. 8 to 9" wide by 7" in height. It's very tight
and plays the same role of our BONGO, riffing over
the rhyhms provided by the rahmani and kasir.

Then there is sometimes the KASIR MUFALTAH ( flat kasir) which plays the role
of snare or timbale. Sometimes this a skin tightly stretched over
a copper bowl and is thne called a TIBAL, the ancestor of our
kettle drums & timbales.

Above these one may hear a conch shell, a mizmar or
even bagpipes today.

Although you may never have heard this music , it would
be somewhat familiar the first time you heard it. I attended
a 3 day Omani festival held in Washington DC a few summers ago.
I'll look for my photos.


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Postby Bachikaze » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:37 pm

Wow, we can learn so much from threads like this.

I think Isaac's post is an example for two valuable lessons.

1) the most obvious is the evolution and dispersal of cultural musical forms along with the people or their contacts, and how those relationships can be traced.

2) but the other is the parallel developments of similar sounds and playing styles by disparate peoples who were influenced by the same origin but have since had little or no contact with each other. We sometimes spend too much time focusing on the differences between cultures, and it's just as valuable to study the similarities.




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Postby Isaac » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:50 pm

OMAN DRUM PHOTOS - 2005
by
Isaac


Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... _ISAAC.jpg
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