Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Manufacturers, brands, skins, maintenance, stands, sticks, michrophones and other accessories for congueros can be discussed into this forum ...... leave your experience or express your doubts!

Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby RitmoBoricua » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:36 pm

Doo not worry I was not talking specifically
about Bengon situation. I juts wanted to point
out that is a lot easier to remove finish when
soft either by using stripper or heat gun; in
Bengon case I would keep sanding by hand
because I believe he is dealing with that
seal coat that is real hard to remove. Like
I said before I have come across the same
problem and only sanding took care of it.
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby 11am » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:24 pm

Rit, I'm with you on this, it would help id he would post a pic of his progress. Could tell in a minute what stage he's at.
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby RitmoBoricua » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:28 pm

No worries my man, I understand your points too.
Nothing wrong with trying to help a brother we
all bring unique skills and experiences to the table
so to speak and I love it, just keep them coming.
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby 11am » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:19 am

That's what it's all about, Bro, helping people. Best medicine for El Mundo! Where are you in Fl, I'll be moving down soon to the Lauderdale area, hopefully
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby bengon » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:48 pm

Here's one of the drums. The other is basically the same.

The gel coating is gone. I think I'm going to have to just keep sanding it down. I've seen some refurbs on LPs that have a picture of them between sanding and re-staining that look totally clean. Buncha work!
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby RitmoBoricua » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:44 pm

Looking good. What kind of finish do you want?
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby 11am » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:25 am

you're almost there brother, little more elbow grease and you won! What grits are you using, and are you using an oscillating sander, palm sander or just your hand? The oak or ash is a very tight grained hard wood, ( most baseball bats are ash) so you can use 80 for the first sand, and 100 for the finish sand with a palm sander. and touch up with your hand with 120
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby RitmoBoricua » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:38 pm

11am wrote:you're almost there brother, little more elbow grease and you won! What grits are you using, and are you using an oscillating sander, palm sander or just your hand? The oak or ash is a very tight grained hard wood, ( most baseball bats are ash) so you can use 80 for the first sand, and 100 for the finish sand with a palm sander. and touch up with your hand with 120


That wood is rubberwood and appears to be close grained
so you do not have to fill the grain to achieve a smooth
finish.

I think your final sanding before applying finish should
be at least with 180 grit, normally on that type of
wood I go to 220 grit and I sand my hand that way I feel
and follow the contour of the drum.

Sometimes when you use a sander you end up with high
and low spots and there is a good chance those spots will
jump at you when you apply finish specially a gloss clear top
coat.
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby bengon » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:21 pm

Well, I'm still trying to get the stain off, so I'm using 80 with a random orbital sander. It's taking forever though! I have gotten some high and low spots, but I was thinking I would hand sand to even out afterwards.

I'm not sure what kinda of stain I'm going to go for. Red Oak and Red Chestnut both look pretty nice.
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby RitmoBoricua » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:44 pm

My personal opinion is that perhaps 80 is a little too aggressive
at this point, judging by the photo you provided. I would go
with like a 120 right now then 150 and finally 180 or 220. I
think your red stain color choice is right on the money whatever
residue you may have left on the drum from the old finish it can
be blend with the new stain.

I have done the same thing you are doing and is a lot of work
but I think you are almost there good luck and keep us post it..
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby buckoh » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:33 pm

80 grit is way too aggressive! Start 180, finish w/220 to 240 being careful not to burnish the wood. Sanding to remove a finish is never recommended unless it is a modern finish that is all but indestructible, such as a conversion varnish or a polymer as on Yamaha pianos. Old stain needs to be bleached out with 2 part bleach, oxalic acid, or Hood Finishing Products Hoodbleach 192 Stainaway. Depending what the stain is, you'll have to figure out what the appropriate product is to get the results you want. I'd start with lacquer thinner on a rag. If that doesn't do anything, then oxalic acid. If that doesn't work, try the bleach. Lastly, try the Hoodbleach 192. It is for aniline stains that penetrate very deeply. Good luck.
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby 11am » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:50 pm

This might be of some use, as I needed to familiarize my own self on Rubberwood. I own 3 tubs made from it and thought it was some type of Asian oak. Well, it is, in many regards, so it can stand up to an 80 grit first sand, for sure. As Rit pointed out, you can always lighten up by hand when you're done with the initial sand. He's worked on this particular wood before, and has insight. Now, to be honest, I don't know how aggressive you get when using a palm sander, as you want to use a moderate to light pressure rather than grinding it into the surface. You don't want to create low spots, as pointed out. ( and you have mentioned that you have? How did that occur?) Oak or ash, or similar hardwood will never do that with an 80 grit with moderate pressure, constantly moving the sander. Mahogany will, for example. If a palm sander does create lows quickly, then you CANNOT continue to use that tool. I would agree that the finish sand be done by hand with whatever grit removes the swirls with the least effort. Check the surface with denatured alcohol to look for any swirl, at every paper change at least. ( dry it fast with a hair dryer to save time) You should not be in a hurry at this phase of sanding, because this is what the drum will look like. Get the swirls OUT! You already busted your ass this far, bust it a little more and your drum will thank you for it by looking good. Be sure to post pics here, as this project of yours will add to the information and be very helpful to other Brothers. Good luck and ask as many questions as you like. DEFINITION OF RUBBERWOOD

What is rubberwood?
Rubberwood is a hardwood belonging to the Euphorbiaceae family
Rubberwood has very little tendency to warp or crack
Rubberwood-Eco Friendly!

Rubberwood is often the most misunderstood species of wood in the furniture industry. The name rubberwood invokes a variety of misconceptions as to it’s features and to it’s durability. Rubberwood (also called Parawood in Thailand) is the standard common name for the timber of Hevea brasiliensis.

In fact, rubberwood is one of the more durable lumbers used in the manufacturing of today’s home furnishings. Rubberwood has a dense grain character that is easily controlled in the kiln drying process. Rubberwood has very little shrinkage making it one of the more stable construction materials available for furniture manufacturing. Like maple, rubberwood is a sap producing species. In the case of maple, it is sap; in the case of rubberwood, it is latex. Rubberwood produces all the latex used in the world for all rubber based products.

There is one more important feature of rubberwood that is very important in today’s world. Rubberwood is the most ecologically “friendly” lumber used in today’s furniture industry. After the economic life of the rubber tree, which is generally 26-30 years, the latex yields become extremely low and the planters then fell the rubber trees and plant new ones. So, unlike other woods that are cut down for the sole purpose of producing furniture, rubberwood is used only after it completes it’s latex producing cycle and dies. This wood is therefore eco-friendly in the sense that we are now using what was going as waste.

Do not mistake the name rubberwood when it comes to its quality features.
Properties of Rubberwood:
Density (kg/M3 at 16% MC ---------------------------- 560-640
Tangential Shrinkage Coefficient (%) ------------- 1.2
Radical Shrinkage Coefficient (%) ----------------- 0.8
Hardness (N) ----------------------------------------------- 4,350
Static Bending, N/mm at 12% MC ------------------ 66
Modulus of elasticity,n/mm at 12%MC ------------ 9,700
Source : FRIM , Malaysia

As can be seen, these properties compare well with those of conventional hardwoods . Thus we have the ideal substitute with the major difference that Rubberwood is less expensive, more plentiful and Eco-Friendly.
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby buckoh » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:57 pm

I've been repairing furniture and restoring antiques since 1973. Back then the spent rubber trees were bulldozed into a pile and torched. It was considered useless. In the early 80s it started appearing in less expensive furniture made in various far eastern countries. For awhile I thought it was some sort of mahogany. It is everything you stated but not very strong and does not finish well (meaning it is hard to get even color and good grain accentuation). It is used almost exclusively on inferior imported furniture that won't survive long enough to become antiques. We've used up most of the primo woods so, Parawood, as it's called has a niche. I don't like it and wouldn't build anything out of it. I'm prejudiced because it's not fun to repair and touch up. I do have Meinl and Matador bongos made of it and they are ok. The thing about sanding a finish off is this: if a piece was sanded every time it was refinished it would get smaller over time. I've seen some valuable antiques diminished by sanding and bad finish work. I hate stripping but, when i do it I do it by hand. Heat gun, stripper and scrapers. Then a light prep sanding, usually by hand.
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby 11am » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:07 am

I have 3 old CP Tubs that i bought new 6-7 years ago that were advertised as Siam Oak, they are now identified as Rubberwood! They have been well recorded and are as good as the day I bought them, sound, no cracks what so ever, although they do double duty as end tables, naturally. my Main tubs are LP Palisades that I purchased new in 1970, and have made it to a fair amount of recordings, concerts, and filmscores and still do, luckily.. I started apprenticing on restoration work from the area masters at age 12, and still make a reasonable living at it at 60, so it's a pleasure to make your acquaintance. I use all kinds of techniques to strip wood, and restore finishes. I have no idea if the drum's finish was removed with methylene chloride or heat, or just sanded dry. ( Which i would never recommend on a conga, or anything of value as you pointed out)) If the wood is indeed a hardwood,( and from your account it is not), I would have no issue with starting with an 80 grit initially, but that said, I'm expert on this process and could discern after one touch if it was too aggressive. Skill level and experience do play a big role, that is a given. From the information that I am receiving from people who have handled the wood, it is a step above balsa, but i tend to think it's a little hardier than that, when I examine my own drums made of it. It's pretty dense and heavy, pretty much the weight of oak? Is it that weak and soft? Maybe so! I will venture a guess that it's not that bad, and can sand well in most instances. I would agree that most of these shells are finished with a tinted epoxy topcoat and not stained at all. Ritmo pointed that out, and he has restored some. Most often one will step sand wood with progressively finer grits, I sometimes go up to 2000, depending, and I'm sure you do as well.( I'll do that when I'm making custom pool cues for example.) I think that his restoration project will do well with you advice, although those fine grits to soon might choke up pretty quick on a plasticized finish? Again, he posted a pic and he seems to be pretty much stripped and ready for finish sanding. Here is where your grit selection would produce a nice ground to work from. Also, your comment about the woods ability to take a stain might weigh in as well. It is better to err on the side of caution, so, if 80 grit scares one off, start with whatever one can handle confidently and carry on from there, according to the physical properties of the material. Your input is well taken and appreciated. Check back in as his project progresses
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Re: Poor mans guide to vintage conga restoration

Postby Mike » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:16 am

buckoh wrote: Heat gun, stripper and scrapers. Then a light prep sanding, usually by hand.


That can be a risky method IMO, as you might burn off the glue and the staves might separate!

I am not really a restoration expert, but what I once successfully did to remove a thick layer of old polyurethance
lacquer was to first scrape it off carefully with a sharp hunting knife at an angle,
and then prceeding to sand it from 100 grit to finer.
Peace & drum
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