congaplace.com

Dear Gentle Readers,

Where I live, music stores have no congas; hence, I'm learning about, and shopping for, congas online. Not the optimal situation, but unavoidable. I have learned a bit about the types-names of congas, watched YouTube videos, & listened to inconsistent patterns/sound clips at LP's site. I have some idea now of the range-pitch that a type of conga has, and I'll leave aside any discussion about tuning them, for now.

I had e-mailed three companies, and one fellow I know in a band with a conga player with some questions, and got no reply from anyone. I had in the past bought from two of those companies and was indirectly trying to buy a product (through a dealer) from the 3rd company; odd to get no help at all. Everyone says business is bad, customers aren't buying. Um, answer my e-mails, and I may be inclined to buy from you. Anyway...

I did find someone whom I believe knows his stuff, and he mentioned BG's Alex Acuna conga, (not the black one with the Remo synthetic head). May not be the perfect fit to the budget, however. A conga, or guitar, is a tool and I do know that one should not buy crappy tools (but unlike Washington, I must live with a given budget, period). What I want, may not be what I can get. So, if asked to name your first 3 choices, wherein choices two and three are still good tools at a decent price for a first time buyer, what might you say? For me, right or wrong, if I buy brand x conga I would buy the tumba and perhaps quinto in the same series line. There is a certain eye candy appeal of matching drums, to consider.

Right or wrong, I think I would start with a conga, likely add a tumba next, and possibly a quinto at the last. As to the questions of how many drums, and to what end, you may ask? I hope to end up with a band, playing 60s-70s music. If not, I will park the conga near the guitar by the fireplace, and gaze fondly at it while I listen to "Soul
Sacrifice" on iTunes. That I could live with, but if I do not at the very least try congas, that will be harder to live with and if you're reading this you understand that.

1) If I consider 60s-70s music to be real music for real people, what type of conga or congas do I actually want? This is one spot where the internet learning method's not the
most clear.

2) I used to play guitar and drums, and I don't know if being a former drummer will help or hinder things, in a way. I thought with having been a drummer it may help one with an overall sense of the "flow," in general, if I can call it that. Or, maybe not?

When I listen to music, slapping my hands on my legs, I sometimes think of the hands as being the bass drum and snare and in turn that would equate, in reality, to what? A tumba, and quinto? Are those the drums I want? Here again, there's a big hole in learning things, on the 'net. (And at the moment, I have no congas, so)... This question may be the wrong way to think of things, or a bad habit in the making.
Again, I don't know.

I think drum/s and bass, are the foundation to the others, and the song is built up from there. Everyone should put in a tasteful bit, to serve the music. It isn't about a person, or what they play being the "star," as I see it.

Finally, if this virtual place is home to "bongo" players I come to ask The Elders about The Way of what to do & not do before I try my hand (or hands), at playing congas. I will bring some respect for the art with me, and I want to be at the very least, a competent crafstman in what I do.

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* Last questions: LP was one company that did not reply to my e-mail about their products, & I don't feel obliged to genuflect in their presence. However, budget-wise, if their Classic 11 line is an average of $200 less per drum than Classic models, is the Classic 11 line a poor relative? You have to leave something out, to get a $200 price spread.

And from what I have read, their Matador line is about as far down the quality scale, that a beginner would wish to buy. True, not true?

May I also assume, that most of you prefer wood congas, vs the fiberglass models? It seems the wood is sensitive to hot and cold which affects the tuning, so I wonder if that and learning to tune things, is more grief or confusing to one about to buy and start playing congas.

Many thanks for any thoughts, advice, on this.
Best, Pat

Pat,
I won't attempt to address all of your questions since there are pros here who can do so with far more weight behind their answers. Couple things I can throw your way. There really aren't drums specific to 60-70's music. As long as the drums are of reasonable pro level manufacture it's mostly a question of tuning. Mass produced drums I think are just fine, some are slightly better than others, but at this stage you need a solid utilitarian set of drums that will allow you to learn and enjoy what you're learning. For years I've gigged with a set of LP Sam Ash Ardiente congas, which get no respect in the pantheon of drums. However, like most mass produced drums they're made out of Siam oak. The hardware was sufficient and I changed the heads over to muleskin. Those babies served me well for many years. I recently changed over to Matador FIBERGLASS and love them. I believe the MATADOR line is a fine investment for any player of medium to high skill. The wood was a bit too sensitive and heavy for my tired old bones, and fiberglass sounds just dandy. You''ll find on this forum players and collectors and player-collectors, and masters. In the end, Pat, it all comes down to how much money you want to spend and how fussy you are about the exact sound of your drum. Good luck. I'm sure the forum pros will be able to help you much more than I have.

CongaTick;

Most kind of you to reply, thanks.

I didn't mean to imply that one had to have certain types of drums for old rock music; rather, I was asking if the more experienced members here, were to do that, what type of conga/s would you want? That in essence, is what I was trying to find out, (but perhaps I phrased it poorly).

If 36 folks said conga, and quinto but 8 of you said conga and tumba... well, that tells me something. Yes, my 1st post said that at the moment I think I would in the end get 3 drums, but I wonder if that's one too many? Again, no experience of my own, leads nowhere for reliable answers.

Yes, I have read that real pros can get many sounds from just one drum, but I'm not a pro; not even playing, yet. But as a beginner I am trying to find a decent tool, or tools, at the onset. I've read that the experts use 2 of these, or 5 of those, then I'm not sure what to think. They know from experience what to do, I don't. When I do buy I am trying to find good gear, though, & possibly avoid having to trade up later.

Strangely, you mentioned some items that you'd used that I had considered budget-wise, then backed away from for the reason that you mentioned - it gets dissed by everyone. I worried about buying low hanging fruit, then perhaps regretting it, should it sound like cardboard. But you say you remedied that, with different heads, so perhaps I should reconsider my thinking.
You raise another point, too: some say fiberglass has the ability to cut through noise if playing out somewhere, but I wonder what it's like in a smaller room, at practice time?
And then too, many of course argue that only wood, has the "true" sound. At the moment, I can speak with no authority, on any of this. But, yes, I want a good sound and oddly it is one of "I know it when I hear it" things. And everyone here would have a different view on that, too, as many things are quite subjective.

Someone on this forum mentioned Steve Weiss music site, which I did check. Yow... that place has LP wood Classics at $100 bucks less per drum, than Sam Ash and that puts things within my range. I also found GB's Tumbao Pro series, at another site mentioned here (I think), and their price put those within reach, too. I think I also found Matadors that were affordable, too; preferably if I can find free shipping, I was trying to go not much beyond $350 per drum, if possible.
If the Weiss store prices are that much less, on average as in the example above, I may even ask if they can get them what their price may be on GB's Acuna series, or the GB Tumbao Pro line and see how that comes out.

Again, my thanks for your thoughts, on this.
Best, Pat

Where I live, music stores have no congas

Why does everybody that says something like that, never say where they are? Or have it in their profile?

Where are you? There might be someone here that lives down the the street from you. Videos and books are fine but can never beat a good teacher.

NewKidInTown,

Just go to http://www.moperc.com and buy that set of three (tumba, conga, quinto) used drums under the "used" tab right now and be done for life. You'll never need to trade up.

Ok ... I know ... you're not gonna spend the $1500 or whatever it would take to close on that deal right out of the gate with your first drums ... but damn ... somebody is gonna get a deal.

So back on subject, I just played an LP Caliente quinto today with a friend in the park (he lurks here) and we both mused on how good the slap on that drum sounded. Bear in mind that my buddy put a top quality steerskin on that little drum ... and that head is now conditioned from over a year of frequent playing ... but still. Calientes are among the cheapest of the cheap ... and it sounded sweet. Somebody else mentioned Matadors, which are not only great starting points but are working man's drums for some hard working (but not so well paid) musicians.

So dude, you have a lot of choices in front of you. You're not looking only at a spectrum of drums ... you've got head material to think about. Water buffalo vs. steerskin vs. mule vs. a whole range of synthetics ... then there are thick heads and thin heads.

You can't expect LP to call you back man. They're a huge conglomerate of a company. You gotta let that go and make the best choice for you.

Here is what I think is the most basic first principle:
Make sure ... really sure ... don't screw this up ... drumroll please ...
Buy tucked head drums.
Don't buy sewn head drums.
Just make sure that your first congas have skin heads that are trapped by the skin being formed/stretched/dried around a hoop and clamped by the tension that you apply when you turn the nuts on the tuning bolts.

Buy 'em used ... buy 'em new ... trade 'em, steal 'em, or borrow ... but don't waste a minute or your time or a penny from your pocket on "congas" that have thin heads sewn with cord to their supporting rings.

That's my one point here.

I haven't given you enough information in this discussion yet for you to know the difference if you are starting from scratch on congas, I admit. But don't you make a purchase until you do understand the difference or you'll be sorry. Keep asking questions ... get online and research ... do what you gotta do brother. But there are shit drums out there. There I said "shit." So be it. You don't want those shit drums.

Cheers,
BMac

P.S. For whatever it is worth, I hail from Charlotte, North Carolina. I have a sweet collection of congas ranging from cheap to $$$. My door is open to you ... but obviously you ain't from Charlotte, because the music stores have congas here.

NewKidInTown wrote:Dear Gentle Readers,


When I listen to music, slapping my hands on my legs, I sometimes think of the hands as being the bass drum and snare and in turn that would equate, in reality, to what? A tumba, and quinto? Are those the drums I want?

====

I think it's best not to think of the conga drums as equating to what a bass drum and snare drum usually play in most popular music. A conga player is generally playing different patterns and in different places to what the drummer is doing. The congas play a very different role to the drum kit.

Some more advice to you seeing you are only beginning:
1. If you are going to buy your first 2 drums get a conga and a tumba.

2. In my opinion, if you are a beginner it doesn't matter too much on the quality of the drum (as long as they're not sewn head drums or 'shit' drums like BMac mentioned above). I think entry level drums are fine for a beginner (e.g. anything from LP Aspires and up). I think what is much more important is learning from a good teacher who can model good technique for you and show you how to get a good sound out of just about any drum. When I think back to the first time I put my hands on drums I wouldn't have known (or appreciated) the difference between an entry level conga and a top of the range drum.

If you don't have good teachers where you are check out people like Congaplace's very own Johnny Conga on YouTube. Johnny knows his stuff, check his lessons out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN_z1FPzvaw

3. Check out some of the world's greatest congueros on You Tube, just to name a few: Miguel 'Anga' Diaz, Giovanni Hidalgo, Changuito, Patato Valdes.
Have a look and listen to what they do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aBuFXnICHY

Here I am after working a double shift, but I felt obliged to reply since I was in your same position about 5 years ago....

1. Stay away from LP Classic II's. I bought a set of three as first drums and they are nothing great. Did they serve their purpose in terms of learning on? Yes.....but if I jumped on any of the several used drums I was looking at at the time, I would have had higher quality drums for a lower price. LP Classic II's have a flat and empty sound that really comes out when compared to quality drums.....very disheartening. I'm on my 3rd set of main drums..took me this long to find the sound I wanted.

2. There is nothing wrong with buying used drums. You may be able to find a set of used LP Classics anywhere between $200-$400. If the wood is not split, heads are in good shape, and hardware is holding up, you are probably good to go. Fiberglass drums may even suit your needs better...lighter, and can generally take more of a beating. The good thing about buying a used set is that if you feel it's not for you, you did not lose a substantial amount of coin.

This forum is a wealth of information.....take some time to go through it and take it all in. Good Luck.

*** Pilot Error / Course Correction:

Pardon me, but as the area I'm in is for newlyweds and nearly deads where they bury the dead and marry the afflicted, the cynic in me rashly assumed that local stores could "order it for you" if one wanted a conga, say, but didn't carry them in the store. Not so, this blockhead just discovered.

While the one chain store, West Music, handles Meinl and Tycoon which I've had no interest in thus far, the other store is in the Toca, LP camp. (This is the store I have to
always e-mail twice, before getting a reply, but)... Seems that they always stock an LP conga, & quinto and the dreaded Aspire model. I don't know just now which series the conga & quinto may be, but many of you have indicated that a top notch head can correct many sins, if need be. Whatever the case, I can only buy 1 drum now, likely, & the other later.

But, luckily for me then this means I can go forth and have that 1st laying of the hands on the tubs ceremoney and see if boy and "bongo" become one. <sigh>

While happy to support the local guy, that means paying tax which cuts into the buying power, but it also means the preferable "try before you buy" experience.

I thought part of the above would be refreshing to all, if after someone makes a statement like "no congas in my town, anywhere," finds out that this isn't the case and then comes back to say "Sorry, guys, I was wrong." So, there you have it. Now..

Thanks to those who put in their thoughts on first time buying.

To BMac who spoke about the heads, I inked the phrase "buy tucked head drums" on my knuckles, so I won't forget and regret that possible buying error. Next, I will have to
learn about the many types of heads.

To pavloconga: about the time I wrote that comment, I had a feeling my thinking was in error, or not stated well. I do agree that the congas aren't there, to mimic snare and bass drums. You are of course correct about that, and I hope to learn that, as I go along. And, yes, I kind of guessed that conga, and tumba would be the starting point (but wasn't certain of course) so, kind of you to mention that. And, yes, even if I have to settle for an Aspire model to start with... it has more to do with knowing what to do with said drum, from the start. Or learning what & how, I should say, as you had mentioned.

As to a conga teacher: oddly, after roberthelpus gave me a stern lecture about not posting my locale - and I seldom mess with that, as most places I haunt have nothing to do with help depending on the locale, so I never thought to fill that in, but in this case there's possible merit to his comment...I then got thinking that there were perhaps a few musicians I still knew who could help me, and I completely forgot about having a University nearby, which may help, too. Or, even some store's drum or guitar teacher may also play congas, or they may know someone, who does. But thus far I have found
that one guy's name is always mentioned in the same sentence with the word conga in this area; if he has time or interest in giving lessons remains to be seen, but I can check that.

To PRDRconguero: thanks for staying up late, to weigh in with your thoughts, and advice to stay away from Classic 11 series. Good to know. And be it used, or fiberglass: I will find out what the store has, before long; again, at this very second, without hearing the real differences between wood, or fiberglass I of course can't say one way or another. But then as you say, if I first buy a used model and if I find out these old hands aren't cut out for congas, then I haven't lost a zillion bucks for a pricey model.

Again, thanks to all, for your kind help. Next, I had better start learning about heads. After that, I hope soon to return and ask: now that I have 1 or 2 of these things, what
do I do with them?

Thanks, folks.
Pat

Start with a Conga and a Tumba. Get both if you can afford them.

For good new drums at a good price point I went with Gon Bops Tumbao Pro series drums (purchased on line about 2 years ago). Now that I am playing 4 - 5 gigs a week, I'm glad I did, although the previously mentioned Matadors would have also been just as good choices (but they were a little more pricey). Rolling cases make their weight an issue of little significance to this old fart.

I fully agree (from experience) with pavloconga's recommendation that you find a teacher if at all possible. These drums are technique intensive; and the price of poor technique can manifest itself not only in poor quality sound, but damage to your hands that could set you back or, worse yet, cause you to lose interest. A good teacher will be able to spot and correct your technique issues, just like a coach. He will also get you working on the right things for developing chops.

Best wishes as you embark on a most remarkable journey!

I may be beating a dead horse here, but I saw an example of a drum on ebay that I thought I'd point out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Latin-Percussion-CO ... 5adbee93a3

If you look soon, you'll see several photos. I don't mean to grind on the seller, but the drum serves as a good example of a bad example. The black brackets that anchor the chromed tension bolts to the wooden body of the drum are simple open straps formed from a stamped piece of thin metal. Those brackets won't hold tension for long even if you did try to tension that drum. The big black upper crown is a single thin piece of stamped/formed metal. It shouldn't be confused with the more durable and heavy "comfort curve" rims you see on better drums. Don't get me wrong, I like traditional bands over "comfort curve" rims, but that's another discussion. The point I'm making here is that this drum is crap. I can't be sure whether the head is sewn or tucked, but other elements of the drum have me guessing the head may be sewn.

With a starting price at $25, the seller isn't trying to rip anybody off. But the problem with starting with a drum like this is that the thing ultimately isn't really gonna be playable at even an entry level. If you start here, you may completely pass over a life passion because the drum is just too flimsy for you to ever feel what playing a conga is about. I've said this before in these forums in a discussion about how great players can play even cheap drums well ... but here it is again ... better drums are easier to play.

The next potentially great aspiring conguero might pick up that drum and find that passion ... or he might just set it down and think that conga playing just ain't for him. This danger is mirrored in many products across essentially all technology domains, and it's our fault. We demand low prices. Responding to that demand, somebody somewhere is gonna cut corners to such a degree that the product sold just isn't really functional. The ebay link I've provided demonstrates this phenomena applied to congas.

Cheers,
BMac

Waterloo Iowa. pop. last census 68747. I lived for a year or so in Bowling Green, VA, pop. 936. I firmly believed that I was the best conguero in Caroline County at the time

I started out on a pair of CP's, which were pretty much the same as Aspires, with just a name change. Bought them on a whim and only really started on them when Grupo AfroCuba came to town. During the workshop one of the AfroCuba drummers borrowed them to play for one of the dance classes. I asked them how he liked them and through the language barrier he smiled and said they were fine. He certainly made them sound good. Of course, we are talking about some very polite people here.

I kept them for a long time, and bending rims and all, they allowed me to take my time and upgrade at leisure when I found good deals. They served me quite well and I can't remember anyone turning their nose up at me. I am guessing that they realized that I was putting the time and effort in. I kept them for a good while after I started collecting better drums. It was nice to have drums to loan out whether at a workshop, class, or Rumba, or occasionally for someone interested in playing to take home for a while. I eventually sold them to people in such situations. Sometimes I wish that I still had them to use as loaners. I still have the double drum stand that I have turned into my percussion rack (damn I miss my welding outfit.)

So go and get a functional drum and play it. Plenty of time to get that super fantastic set up once you have a better idea of what's what.

TO: alabubba,

Thanks for your comments.

The only way I could get two drums, at once, would be to go way down the scale for two wood Aspires; I'd rather not to do that, if I can avoid it. Yes, some say it's fine for the
beginner such as myself, & that a good head may fix even the low-end stuff to a degree, but...

IF I buy online, I can go this far: I could buy (1 at a time) the GB Tumbao Pro series, LP Wood Classics, or LP Matadors. All those, depending where one buys, are within the desired price range that I had in mind. As I wrote earlier Steve Weiss Music was somehow, impossibly, 100$ less per drum for the LP Classics than everyone else, for instance. I don't know how they do that.

Teacher: yes, some progress on that front. It concerns the fellow that I mentioned - his name comes up every time in the same sentence with the word conga, so I hope that comes to pass. An immense help, if it does.

The person is in a large well known salsa band in the area, and is one of four percussionists in the band; the bio of each person runs longer than your arm - what they studied, where, with whom, & many of them teach at universities. And many of them sing, play several instruments, and/or play in several groups. Wore me out, just reading that stuff; where do they find time?

=========

TO: BMac,

Yes - your note, and those pics - most assuredly make the point on what not to get. Scary, depressing thought, that such stuff is out there in abundance.

=========

TO: roberthelpus,

Nice story, and good points, all. The varied opinions are great, helpful and someone here said that this helps toward a lively discussion. And I certainly appreciate the help, and thoughts of the group - and a good crew it is here, too.

=========

Again, thanks to all for comments, and your kind help.
Best, Pat

And, finally...

My other main question... wood, or fiberglass congas? What I say here comes only from reading about this, so bear in mind I offer perhaps ill-informed speculation.

a) The wood camp says the true, warm sounds comes with wood; they are of course heavier, perhaps fussy with the heat and cold, and therefore may detune easier/quicker. As the beginner here, do I want to fuss with that, too?

b) The fiberglass crowd says lighter, the synthetic(?) heads stay tuned longer, and this type cuts through noise better if you are playing out somewhere. My question on this would be are they really loud if playing in a smaller area if, say, practicing with others? Are they more prone to crack/break, if some mishap occurs? Further, I have read that beginners may find "the slap" easier on synthetic heads of find these heads easier to play in general. True, or not true, would you say?

Although I haven't looked specifically at cost difference in wood or fiberglass models,it is another consideration, but your more experienced views will help lead to my final "what to buy" conclusion. All told, for whatever reason, seems I still tend to think in terms of wood congas. When at the store next week, it'd be great if they had both wood and fiberglass models, but I can't count on having that choice.

Thanks again,
Pat.

* After this, I will try to be quiet, and read (the forums) a bit more. I don't want to wear your guys out.