Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

[Joseph]

but Mario did say soaking them in water removes a lot of the natural oil of the skin

Oil (as in the natural oil in the skin) is not water soluble, so I have a difficulty believing the time one usually soaks a skin for mounting removes a LOT of natural oil from skin.

The process by which oil would be removed would be called "leeching", whereby the oil (in the skin) would be slowly displaced (not dissolved) in the presence of another liquid (the skin softening water soak).
I think you would have to soak skin for a LONG time for natural oils to leech away.

If natural oils leech away, they should be present, and observable, as an oily sheen on surface of water used to soak skin.
I've soaked a number of skins and never observed oily sheen on soak water.

~Joseph

[Mike]

I've soaked a number of skins and never observed oily sheen on soak water.
~Joseph

I can only say: Then you haven´t soaked an El Greco skin so far
Really, his treatment of the skins before you get it is quite different and special
from what I was used to!

[Joseph]

I can only say: Then you haven´t soaked an El Greco skin so far

Which leads to the question:
If there is such a high oil content to the El Greco skin that oil is leeching out (and observable) into the soak water in the relatively short period of time it takes to make a skin pliable, what purpose is served by immersing skin in oil for 14 days?
... Because it seems as if the skin was already at its saturation point with oil, as evidenced by readily leeching out so quickly.

My skin was full of oil when I got it

Thats like...saturated?

TRYING TO TRANSPLANT OIL INTO THE SKIN WHICH IF OVER SATURATED, IT WILL IN A SENSE BE LIKE AN OILY RAG IF YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS

I tend to agree with Charlie's analogy

Really, his treatment of the skins before you get it is quite different and special
from what I was used to!

Tell me more!
I think El Greco posts here, get him on the horn, let's get the details straight from the source!
It might be a great sales pitch opportunity for him.

BTW Mike, I'm not a partisan proponent of any method, and certainly don't intend to nag you on what you may consider annoying details.
Inquiring minds want to know!
I'm interested in hearing about your final results.

Respect,
~Joseph

[bongosnotbombs]

but Mario did say soaking them in water removes a lot of the natural oil of the skin

Oil (as in the natural oil in the skin) is not water soluble, so I have a difficulty believing the time one usually soaks a skin for mounting removes a LOT of natural oil from skin.

The process by which oil would be removed would be called "leeching", whereby the oil (in the skin) would be slowly drained away (not dissolved) in the presence of another liquid (the skin softening water soak).
I think you would have to soak skin for a LONG time for natural oils to leech away.

If natural oils leech away, they should be present, and observable, as an oily sheen on surface of water used to soak skin.
I've soaked a number of skins and never observed oily sheen on soak water.

~Joseph

Well when someone takes a bath the oil on their skin is washed away, but I never see an oily sheen in my bathtub after I use it.
I think as the skin absorbs enough water to become flexible the oil in the skin gets pushed out by the water. Then when the water dries and the skin becomes hard, the oil that left is gone.

I'm not going to say this is hard science. Everything discussed has been more or less anecdotal.

Also, I want to say I don't know for sure what Mario does with his skins, I just know I never seen a skin with oil pooling and coming out of it like my requinto's skin. Could be the skin was always like that, could be he soaked it in oil, I don't know for sure. Either way it is a fantastic skin and sound beautiful.

[Joseph]

Well when someone takes a bath the oil on their skin is washed away, but I never see an oily sheen in my bathtub after I use it.

Only if you use soap...and then the skin oils are emulsified...dispersed, and don't show up as oily sheen, besides, its not all that much.
Not that I'm implying you are some sort of greasy guy.

Ever been to a marine fuel dock?
They all keep little bottles of spray soap, in case of minor diesel fuel spillage. Coupla squirts and oily sheen instantly dispersed and broken up. Now illegal.

I'm not going to say this is hard science. Everything discussed has been more or less anecdotal.

Ya got that right...this ain't rocket surgery!

Also, I want to say I don't know for sure what Mario does with his skin....... Either way it is a fantastic skin and sounds beautiful.

Thats all that matters.
BTW I have an Isla Requinto with a thick mule on it. Not exactly dripping with oil, but sounds wonderful as well.

~Joseph

[Mike]

Just wait and see, guys

And: Live and let live

My best wishes & a hearty oi(l)-la-la
Mike

[Thebreeze]

Bongos not Bombs....When you say that your Isla came with lots of oil I started thinking about that a little. It seems to me that Mario might not be using Olive Oil, but something of a more heavy consistency. You know oils come in different consistencies, some real thick, others thinner, like Olive Oil for instance is nice and light in my opinion. Some oils might react differently when in contact with skins. After having my bongo heads soaked in Olive Oil for a week, they dried out very nicely and are not oily or anything like that. Maybe you can find out what Oil Mario uses.
I heard somewhere that Baby Oil is another oil that might be used by some people here in the states. I have used baby oil when mounting conga skins, just coating the playing surface and this really helped if anything by making it easier to pull the skin through the rim with the pliers. Then I would dry the heads off with a clean cloth and the drums would have a nice pleasant smell to them.

Will.

p.s......Knowing that El Greco has been doing this for many years and it being in his family for so long, I would just use the Olive Oil.

[El Greco]

Dear all
I am very pleased with all the attention you all have given me so far and I sincerely thank you for that. I'm in Skin Treatment and drum making since 1987. It's follow up tradition originating from my Grandfather back in in the mid of the last century. The main thing about skin treatment is how Natural it is. By that I mean trying to enhance on its Nature. But not by any chemicals; only using natural ingredients. Descarga Percussion means to work only on tradition originating in my family. But tradition to be right needs time. Time for preparation, time for curing - a lot of time - 7 separate parts of skin treatment before finally cut to size. This takes 50 days to two months to be completed. The main goal is to clean the skin pore-deep. At the same time keep all the natural fats intact. What I aim for is to assimilate the natural fats of the skin in the outer parts; top and bottom. Therefore not neglect the bottom part in favor of the top as they both play an equally important role. Of course, you need the original skin to come from the right animal as I have mentioned earlier to you :

www.mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4020


But if you respect the skins good as they are, and take really good care of them they never disappoint you. Mule skin is new for me too as sources of it only lately became available to me. But the treatment is so well thought-out that it really shows up its real strength on the mules. This is why I am so excited myself with the results so far. i never expected it to be quite frank...
Descarga Percussion ideology is not to just give my own point of view but let percussionists free to share their own valuable experiences.
One more thing ...
The moment you've mounted the skin on your instrument you need to be patient, as I have been in making it. You need to treat it nice as-a-baby if you know what I mean... We don't over-stretch the skin just because a Gig is at two-day's notice. This is the most important period that the skin needs in order to come to perfection. Don't by any means spoil its right to please you. If it is living for you as it is living for me! Skin is not just dead material. It needs to be alive for a long time. To get us through many Gigs to come. All natural oils, be it olive oil, palm oil, sea batter manteca de corojo etc. are good for the care treatment provided by Descarga Percussion and as such I support them.

Finally I must say that I have not been able to communicate with you in the last period of time as I was working and I am going to do the same for the next few days. My girlfriend used to provide me with facts about the forum discussion. Where I go sometimes there is no internet access as I am in between mountains in far-fetched areas in the Greek Islands. This as you might well know needs one thing "DEVOTION".

Hope you have a nice X-mas all of you with many Gigs your way.

With My Kindest Regards

El Greco

[Mike]

That was the background to the miraculous mule skins and the curing method - thank you for your humble and upright words, El Greco!

I now proudly present: My finished skins!

My marinated conga skins drank a good deal of Greek olive oil for like a good week.
I wiped them dry with a piece of cloth, and the touch is NOT oily at all, but wonderfully silky and smooth.
Compare BEFORE:

and AFTER:

This is how I got rid of the oil remnants around the hoop:

Now they are ready to be remounted!

[Mike]

This is the other skin BEFORE the oiling process:

and AFTER:

As you can see, they are perfectly in shape.
They are even a bit darker than the pictures suggest due to the flash.

AWESOME look & feel!

The moment you've mounted the skin on your instrument you need to be patient, as I have been in making it. You need to treat it nice as-a-baby

So patience pays off after all., El Greco is absolutely right.

I will post some pictures of the mounted skins tomorrow and give an account of their sound of course.

Mike

[seisporocho1]

Amazing Mike!! Wow!
Thanks for the pics.

[Sakuntu]

Now I'm interested in seeing how they sound after soaking up all that oil....This whole concept is totally new to me....I'm intrigued. keep us informed Mike!

[Thebreeze]

Mike, great job as I knew it would be. They look just like my bongo heads but just larger. I know you are going to love the sound as well!

Will.

[Joseph]

Look great!
Oil treatment seems to have made them translucent.
Do you have to let oil "cure" before cranking them up to tune?

Mule marinated in olive oil - recipe for a tasty sound

[No.2-1820]

Interesting, the before and after photo's look just like two different kinds of mule skins I have received from Isaac in the past, the before picture look's like the beige (blonde, cloudy) type that I find to have a very dry sound, great for bongo machos and quinto's and the after looks like the more oily deep red kind that I've received that I found to be great for congas, nice deep resonant open tones etc. I wondering if some of these mule skins are imported pre-treated like this. Any ideas Isaac ?

Barrie