Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby thomas newton » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:02 pm

Don't know if anyone said this earlier - haven't read the whole thread...

5.5mm - is about 1/4 of an inch so that's a measure of skin thickness.
55mm - is about 22 inches so that can only be skin diameter.

R.
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby ABAKUA » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:22 pm

Just want to get it clear, you guys are submerging the skins in oil before cutting them down and mounting or once shaped and cut etc fitted, then taken off and soaked in oil?
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby Mike » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:56 pm

ABAKUA wrote:Once shaped and cut etc fitted, then taken off and soaked in oil?


Yep!
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby ABAKUA » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:01 pm

Ah, so it doesnt go flat again? It stays in shape with the ring inside it and all?
Or does it need to be re-fitted etc and re-mounted again?

Sitting in oil all that time does not make it go flat etc? It stays in the position?
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby Mike » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:58 pm

ABAKUA wrote:Ah, so it doesnt go flat again? It stays in shape with the ring inside it and all?
Or does it need to be re-fitted etc and re-mounted again?

Sitting in oil all that time does not make it go flat etc? It stays in the position?


No, the skin absolutely does not go flat, it absorbs portion of the oil, but unlike soaking in water before mounting,
the shape does not alter at all, neither the skin thickness nor the shape including the wrapped area. It perfectly stays in the position - I have checked it several times, believe me :wink:
And this fact has got nothing to do with the fact that the original skin-bearer, mule, has been a stubborn beast, but I guess that oil simply has another osmotical (word?) quality.
After all, every single piece of advice I got from El Greco via email (and there was a whole bunch of good tips...) turned out to be true, correct and on top of it very friendly and constructive.
The whole mounting has been nothing but pure pleasure so far! :D

My merry greetings to you on the warmer side of the planet, Marcelo :)
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby No.2-1820 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:04 pm

Interesting stuff, I'm an obsessive gatherer of conga tips and facts and have never heard of this one, I know El Greco spent time in Cuba, is this some Island secret he picked up ?

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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby Mike » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:06 pm

Well, as Will has already stated a few posts before, El Greco surely knows his stuff fine! 8)

He has been in Cuba, yes, but the oil-curing method seems to be a family secret handed down by generation after generation. Well, by now it is not a secret any longer.. :wink:
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby bongosnotbombs » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:10 pm

I think Isla might do something like this too. My skin was full of oil when I got it, and Mario mentioned something
about water removing oil from the skins and everything.

So what is it, soak it in water to shape it to the drum and then soak it in oil to get the oil back into the skin after the water has caused some of the oil to leave? Put it back on the drum and play?
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby Joseph » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:31 pm

I'm with BnB, I'd like a bit of clarification.
Is this the recipe?

    1) Soak Skin in H2O
    2) Mount on shell w/crown/flesh ring. Allow to dry properly.
    3) Remove from shell / crown (flesh ring in skin)
    4) Totally immerse newly shaped head in oil
    5) After period of time (?) remove from oil bath, wipe dry, remount on shell

My Q's
    1) Is this something preferably done on a new skin / head mount?
    2) Does skin keep its rigidity, or show softening effect from oil saturation?
    3) No prob on remount?...slippage of ring, etc
    4) I've read in other discussions on skin treatments that too much oil can deaden the head, why is this treatment different or desirable?
    5) Is this treatment to achieve a desired tonal effect, or as BnB referenced, simply to restore oils to head that were leached out during H2O soak?
    6) To completely immerse skin must take a quantity of oil. I'm guessing half a gallon (2 liters). Close?


Keep us updated, I'd be interested to know your final results.

~Joseph
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby yambu321 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:20 am

Don't Saturate Your Conga or Bongo Skins with oil. it will never feel as good, or sound as good, as it should.

Just mount it right the first time, and once the head is fully dried, Just very lightly, coat it with olive oil for one hour, or so, and wipe it off completely with a clean dry cloth. After that, let the skin be, and just play. On occassion wipe a little olive oil on your palms, and fingers before you play, this will help maintain your drums skins, in a much more natural and balanced way.

Good Luck! :D
Charlie. 8)
Last edited by yambu321 on Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:40 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby Thebreeze » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:47 am

I am looking forward to seeing your pictures when you are done with the oil treatment and have the heads back on the Congas MIke. Like I said before, my bongos turned out great and sound great, and look great. You can see the pictures of them on the bongo section titled " Bongos hand made in the Dominican Republic" . I can see that some people on the forum might not want to do this on their skins and that is OK, because it's not for everyone. Some people like their skins as they are and like Charlie says, just play play play. But some of us are very excited about learning new things and exploring new horizons that we have not been to before. My skins stayed hard, never went soggy or flat at all. You would think that being a liquid, Olive oil would act like water to an extent, but quite the opposite happens. So all I can say to anyone that has not tried it would be.." Don't knock it till youve tried it" .
I really love this forum because we can all share and learn new things constantly. Wonder what's around the bend???

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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:25 am

yambu321 wrote:Don't saturate your conga or bongo skins with oil. it will never feel as good or sound as good as it should.
Just mount it right the first time, and once the head is fully dried, Just very lightly, coat it with olive oil for one hour, or so, and wipe it off completely with a clean dry cloth. After that, just let the skin be, and play, play and play, then play some more.

Good Luck! :D
Charlie. 8)

Hey Charlie,
Were your Isla skins oily like mine? Do you know what Mario does to them if anything?
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby Mike » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:07 am

Well, as there seem to be some worries and anxieties about the oiling process, I try to clarify some pints here...
I have not done this before, it is kind of an experiment for me too. Will, you are right its about learning new things and exploring new horizons indeed.
Joseph & BnB, you are right, the process goes like this:
1) Soak Skin in H2O
2) Mount on shell w/crown/flesh ring. Allow to dry properly.
3) Remove from shell / crown (flesh ring in skin)
4) Totally immerse newly shaped head in oil
5) After period of time (= 1 week to a maximum of 14 days, depending on the skin thickness) remove from oil bath, wipe dry, remount on shell


I now try to answer the subsequent questions:
Is this something preferably done on a new skin / head mount?
I guess so, yes.

I've read in other discussions on skin treatments that too much oil can deaden the head, why is this treatment different or desirable?
Oversaturation the skins with oil resulting in deadening the sound sounds most likely with thinner heads and also skins with a generally lighter texture IMO. Just a hunch, but I feel El Greco´s skins will turn out great!

Is this treatment to achieve a desired tonal effect, or as BnB referenced, simply to restore oils to head that were leached out during H2O soak?
I think it is both, providing a deep sound plus giving the skin a very long life. @ Bongosnotbombs: Does Mario not use very thick black angus cow skin? These skins look as if they could have absorbed some oil too, judging from the pics you have posted of your beautiful requinto. It might be a Cuban skin treatment after all!

To completely immerse skin must take a quantity of oil. I'm guessing half a gallon (2 liters). Close?
Very good guess, it was precisely 2 litres I needed! Any food oil, palm oil etc. might do the trick I guess. I just felt that Greek olive would fit best here :) - and I had a 5 litre canister at hand anyway. It´s my favourite food oil.

I cannot tell anything about the remounting questions right now, but in a couple of days I will definitely post pictures and, what is more, will give an honest account of the sound of course.

Cheers to everybody! Great thread going on here, I dig the inputs and questions very much :D

Mike
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:52 am

Mike wrote: @ Bongosnotbombs: Does Mario not use very thick black angus cow skin? These skins look as if they could have absorbed some oil too, judging from the pics you have posted of your beautiful requinto. It might be a Cuban skin treatment after all!

Mike


I don't know what kind of skin Mario uses, cow or angus or what, I just know the skin was full of oil when I got it, saturated. I can't say why it was like that, but Mario did say soaking them in water removes a lot of the natural oil of the skin. My guess is he put the oil back in. I can say that the skin on my requinto is very thick, thickest I have. I've never soaked any skins in oil but I only soak my skins in water for the minimum amount of time so too much of the skins oil is not lost, and when dry put a little shea butter on them.
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Re: Mounted mediterranean mule = magnificent!

Postby yambu321 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:00 am

HELLO TO ALL,
IN MY CASE MARIO HOOKED UP MY DRUMS WITH SOME BEAUTIFUL THIN GUAGE TRANSLUCENT COW SKINS ON BOTH MY TUMBA AND MY REQUINTO. NOW AS FOR NATURAL OILS WITH IN A SKIN, USUALLY, THE DARKER THE SKIN THE MORE OILY IT IS, AND VERY NICE. NOT THE SAME AS TRYING TO TRANSPLANT OIL INTO THE SKIN WHICH IF OVER SATURATED, IT WILL IN A SENSE BE LIKE AN OILY RAG IF YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS WITH A CLEAR PERSPECTIVE IN MIND. A LIGHT COAT IS ALL THEY NEED. AS AN EXAMPLE, IF ONE HAS DRY SKIN, AND TAKES A HOT SHOWER AND OR, BATH ONE WILL NOTICE ASHING/ GREATER DRYNESS OF THE SKIN. YET, WITH A LIGHT COAT OF LOTION APPLIED, ALL IS FINE.
FORGIVE ME GUYS. PLEASE DO WHAT YOU MUST, BUT, IV'E ALREADY BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT; AND NOT EVEN TO THE COMPLETE SOAKING LEVEL. YET, THROUGH THICKER COATS, I HAD MANAGED TO ACHIEVE OVER SATURATION OF ONE OF MY BONGO SET'S MACHO'S MULE SKIN.

AS FOR MY ISLAS:
MARIO SENT MY CONGAS TO ME, WITH SKINS, THAT WERE AS BEAUTIFUL, AS THEY WERE NATURAL, AND, WITHOUT ANY OBVIOUS EXTRA OILING. BUT, THAT WAS A FEW YEARS AGO.

TAKE CARE YOU SCIENTIST'S, AND PLEASE DON'T BLOW UP THE LAB NOW. :D

CHARLIE. 8)
Last edited by yambu321 on Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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