mics for congas - where/what kind is best for conga?

[congabebe]

Hi,
After months of mic'ing my congas. I had a sound man tell me that I needed to change the way I was doing it and that the mic's were the wrong kind. As usual, I went for some budget 57 mic, the drum mic's were to high to afford at the time. I have seen comments about the mic needing to be 2 in off the head and seen the ones that are mounted with the LP claw. What I had been doing was placing the mic nested between the congas and bongos.

mic for skakers/eggs/rain stick
bongos: M H
mic
tumba conga

It has sounded fine til this weekend. Of course, we didn't have a sound man for those gigs, we mixed the sound from the stage. So, most of the time, I can't tell if I am heard or not, depends on the mix. ? Well, a drummer, told me to mount them under the congas/bongos.... like you would do a bass drum.

Which is better? What mic (budget style, if there is such a thing?) is recommened? What mic claw works best? Help.

thanks,
Congabebe ???

[cwkemp]

greetings congabebe and fellow drummers/enthusiasts

Having done quite a bit of sound reinforcement and mixing for live and studio situations, I'd like to offer some observations on miking congas. I have never placed a mic under a conga, though it might be considrered a bass drum. I have found that the SHURE SM-57 is a decent drum mic, as well as all-around good stage mic for live settings. I like the sound of the congas miked 4-6 in. above the heads and aimed at a slight angle using an independent mic stand. For small stages you might need to mike your drums a little closer. It would be nice if you could get a sound man to set up your house mix, at least to get started. For a studio situation, there are better microphones, but I still prefer a dynamic or medium diaphragm condenser for hand drums. In short, don't bother blowing a lot of money on a stage mic for your congas for a club setting. Employ a sound man when you can, it can make all the difference.

I like this site. Stay free and happy
cwkemp

[cwkemp]

P.S.
I think if you mic congas from below or inside (like a kick drum) the sound captured will be like that of a kick drum, the sound lost will be your slaps and shuffles and a lot of those other skin related sounds that you work so hard to develop, and make the congas a voice rather than a mere drum.

Sorry for being so long-winded. Hope I can help
cwkemp

[congabebe]

Thank you. I knew there had to be a reason why I never see anyone with mics under their congas. I use (2) 57 mics by Audio technique? I think that is the brand. I have 2 crook neck mic stands. The sound man aimed them on the side of each bongo/conga in the middle down toward the heads. I couldn't play without running into them or slapping them. I hated it. I heard them from the audience when I had someone sit in, but I didn't think it was any better than when we have mic'ed them before. I was thinking about getting one of those mic kits you get for set drums and some claws to mount and seeing if I could get them 2 inches from the head and not so much in my way. Would that work, or would results not be good or enough to change up? Just a thought I had. I have a 10 channel Beringer board we got to use in connection with a base amp for when I get stuck without a channel at a club. Allot of bands don't have 16 channels... so I end up not being mic'ed, so I could just insist on controling my own channels from the stage. Could be a disaster, since I have no way of knowing what they hear in the audience. Have you heard of doing that before? Anyone tried it?

Thanks for your comments.
Peace,
congabebe

[cwkemp]

Hi again,
Every sound tech has his/her own approach to things, but if the microphones are in your way you need them relocated. I'm not familiar with the model of mic you mentioned, but I can do some research. Above the head pointing down is likely the best arrangement, but you can get good sound with the mic off center (further from you) and aimed a little toward the center of your drum head (about 30 to 40 degrees from vertical). Most clip-on mounts approximate this positioning, but closer to the skins, but your goosenecks should work fine, 4 to 6 in. away. Once the mics are set and not interfering with your hands, things get a little subjective. You know how your drums should sound, but no matter what mics you use they have to be EQ'd (simplest at the mixing board) to fit the system and the room AND to suit your taste and style. If you use your own mixer/amp setup you have more control over these factors yourself, (provided you have some understanding of the EQ controls), but the house mix will probably still be in someone else's hands.
My advice might be to have somone who can spend a little time (more than the basic sound check) to tailor your sound using your present equipment. From that point, you'll have a little better direction for improvement and what to shop for.
Even if you have to use house systems, you can really benefit from working with a tech who knows your group and sound when you set up for a gig.

Don't get discouraged, we're all still having a blast just playing!
cwkemp

[sticksnhands]

I use Shure SM-57's & mount them with LP Claws on my Toca congas & bongos. One claw for congas,one for bongos. I found out by trial & error that I don't care much for mike stands-they get in the way,as you have experienced. Stands also tend to clutter up your stage area & I use only one for overhead percussion.

[Michael S]

I have seen advertised in MusiciansFriend a clip-on condenser mic by Audix, a maker of highly reputable drum mics. Does anyone have experience or knowledge of this mic? I currently use stands and cheap vocal mics but SticksnHands is right: stands are clutter. This clip-on looks like just the ticket as the LP claw seems bulky and still intrudes a large mic into the playing area. And at $99 is really affordable as it is mic and mount in one, using a clip with a short gooseneck. The clip looks perfect for my traditional rims.

[cwkemp]

Michael s
I haven't personally used the Audix mic you mentioned, but when shopping for microphones (especially condenser types)make sure the unit is designed to handle the high pressure transients that are characteristic of these percussion instruments. Sudden sharp impulses can easily overwhelm many mic elements that are otherwise great mics. Most of the Audix drum-specific mics I know are dynamic mics, and there is a "D-FLEX" gooseneck clip available as an accessory (looks like it might be good, haven't tried it) Shop the specs, get the right tool for the job. Sennheiser makes great compact mid-cost clip-ons for drums.

2 cents worth
cwkemp

[Michael S]

Thanks cw; my brother-in-law is a former professional drummer (or I should say a "Roland V-Drummer") and an electrical engineer and he informed me of the same things to look for as you have. He referred me to the "speed" of the mic's response. Funny, though, I have heard my vocal mics get overloaded and sort of buzz-out through some amplifiers yet have also heard them fine through others.
I can only assume, but I probably shouldn't, that since they are Audix mics that they will handle percussion but I don't know much about the differences between condenser and dynamic mics.
I've seen the Sennheiser clip-ons in MusiciansFriend at the same cost. They do appear to be much larger. Thanks for the recommendation on them as I am entertaining all possibilities.
BTW, do most PAs offer phantom power or is it only on larger or more expensive units?

[cwkemp]

Michael s
Response speed is the spec to watch for as well as max spl when shopping for drum mics. Condenser mics (which require phantom power or batteries) tend to be more sensitive than dynamic microphones. This one difference alone makes dynamic mics GENERALLY more suitable for miking drums in a live setting where isolating microphones and sources is an issue, especially when the musicians (or like drums in a kit) are in close proximity to each other (and if you employ stage monitors). I tend to use condensers only for overheads on cymbals, and other drums close dynamic mics. This keeps things fairly manageable in terms of isolation and gain before feedback, but everybody's got their own recipe.
There are a number of possible reasons that your vocal mics might buzz out or distort on a given system and not another, the most obvious (aside from a junky amp) is overload at the mixer or amplifier inputs (adjust the TRIM or GAIN control) I know this sounds elementary, but it's something to look for especially if you use microphone preamps. At any rate, if your mics sound good on one system then they're probably fine.
Most mixing consoles built in the last ten years will feature phantom power at some point, the cheaper ones will switch on the phantom to all or a group of mic inputs, (whether they need it or not) while the more sophisticated boards will have a switch on each input. I like to use ART tube preamps which have phantom available if needed and not use the sometimes noisy option on the mixers.
I hope there is something useful in all of that!
have fun
cwkemp

[yoni]

Been recorded with all kinds of weird condensers in studios, but for gigs I prefer the Shure sm57, one for each drum head. And yes, never from underneath. I do get miked from both ends if playing zarb, though, a very bassy hand drum.