MAYUTO CORREA

A place where discuss about secrets, tips and suggestions for practicing on congas and to improve your skill and technique ...

Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby bongosnotbombs » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:05 am

There's plenty of congas in modern jazz nowadays. Congas in modern jazz often have a very different role than the older styles. Much more improvisational, nothing like salsa or son. That old school stuff is cool, but it is also old.

Try this

Jaco Pastorius and Don Alias.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdqje73KQwg

Or give this album a try

Mark De Clive Lowe with Sammy Figueroa

http://mashibeats.blogspot.com/2010/01/ ... nline.html

I think it silly to say you have to play tumbao to play a conga. Guitars don't have a rule like that, drum kits don't have a rule like that, piano doesn't have a rule that. Rules like that are restrictive and limiting.
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby Omelenko1 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:34 am

You can play conga all you want, but a so call conguero or tumbador must know how to play tumbao just like a bongocero must know how to play martillo. You can play modify tumbaos or modify matillos and apply them to many styles of music, but there must be a formal stucture for a conga drummer or a bongocero. That formal structure must exist otherwise you are just pounding on a skin (en español, si no hay estructura entonces te consideran un tira golpes).
Knowing Mongo like I did and so did JC, if you had a lazy left hand, what I mean is no heel fingertip motion coordination on the left, then Mongo would simply say, "the guy can't play because he doesn't have a left hand". Wild riffing is not consider conga playing, you need a conversation, skin language that makes sense and has rhytmic values. Again my 2 cents.
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby Omelenko1 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:46 am

bongosnotbombs wrote:There's plenty of congas in modern jazz nowadays. Congas in modern jazz often have a very different role than the older styles. Much more improvisational, nothing like salsa or son. That old school stuff is cool, but it is also old.

Try this

Jaco Pastorius and Don Alias.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdqje73KQwg

Or give this album a try

Mark De Clive Lowe with Sammy Figueroa

http://mashibeats.blogspot.com/2010/01/ ... nline.html

I think it silly to say you have to play tumbao to play a conga. Guitars don't have a rule like that, drum kits don't have a rule like that, piano doesn't have a rule that. Rules like that are restrictive and limiting.


Don Alias, may he RIP, an ex Mongo bandmate, who I took to dinner with Eddie Guagua in 1972, when Mongo played at the Newpot Hotel in Miami Beach, is playing a modify tumbao with Jaco on Donna Lee.
Sammy Figueroa, my good friend, is playing a modify tumbao in the form of "songo rhythm" on the above tune.
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby jorge » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:30 am

Don Alias with Jaco Pastorius is really talking, very nice interaction. Sammy Figueroa also plays some nice congas on Mark de Clive Lowe's recording. Good examples of jazz conga playing. Even so, I don't hear the kind of virtuosity and super-tight interaction that, for example, Elvin Jones has with McCoy Tyner, Jimmy Garrison and John Coltrane on this piece:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cTe7pP2dX8&NR=1
The role of the trap drummer in jazz is much different, and much more central, than the role of the conga player in jazz, even a great jazz conga player like Candido or the two just mentioned. In contrast, the role of Jorge "El Niño" Alfonso in Irakere was central to the entire group, on almost all their songs. Likewise Mongo, Aguabella, Anga and others in latin jazz. Even Vizcaino playing with a very strong trap drummer plays a pretty central role in a lot of Chucho's pieces. So far in jazz (not talking about latin jazz), I have not heard anyone put congas in a central role, like Elvin Jones in Coltrane's band. Only in latin jazz.

That said, I do give guys like Mongo, Tata, Candido, Patato, Barretto, Mtume, Lawrence Killian, Don Alias, Sammy Figueroa and other afrocuban conga players credit for strongly influencing modern jazz even without dominating the rhythm section. And it goes well beyond tumbao. El difunto Pancho Quinto, his son the late Long John Oliva and now a whole generation of afrocuban percussionists are creating a drumset of cajones, batas, and congas that may one day be capable of taking over the central role of the trap drums in jazz (or in another style of music). But up to now, I haven't seen a caliber of conga playing in jazz that matches the caliber of trap drums of Elvin Jones, Max Roach, Roy Haynes, Beaver Harris, Art Blakey, (Philly) Joe Jones, and many other great jazz drummers. Even Mayuto Correa does not make the grade, much as he has contributed to world music.
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby JohnnyConga » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:39 am

Here is a list..BTW Buck Clarke was a friend of mine back in the late 70's in L.A and I have his only solo album he did...

Any music by
Quartet Tres Bien- Percy on congas

Stone Alliance with Don Alias

Kenny Burrell introduces Candido

Tony Bennett Live at Carnegie Hall 1961-with Candido

Candido-"Conga Soul" album/cd

Ramon Lopez with the Stan Kenton Orch...

Big Black A Night at the Cooker-Blue Note

Master Henry Gibson ...Odell Brown and the Organizers

Charles Martin/Carlos Martin/Carlos Martinez--all the same guy, one of the most used studio Conga players in NY during the late 60's thru 1976 when he was murdered at 4;30 am after doing a session....he also had a unique style and very versed in Jazz Conga and myself who has worked with his share of Top known Jazz musicians from Herbie Mann,to Paquito D'Rivera, Arturo Sandoval, and others...I can do the 'crossover' thing on congas and have been doing it now for 48 years....

last but not least Bill Fitch....nuff said for now...I hope that keeps you busy Jorge.... :) ...JC
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby bongosnotbombs » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:44 am

Well you may be right Jorge, but check these guys out, if you don't already know them, Ninety Miles, probably on of the hottest jazz acts out right now. Cuban.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFT11Qzv ... re=related
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby jorge » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:58 am

JC, thanks for that list. I am familiar with most of them Candido, Don Alias, Big Black, Henry Gibson, and Bill Fitch, except I had never even heard of Quartette Tres Bien and Percy James. I checked out some of their stuff on YouTube, Percy James has an amazing conga style unlike anyone I have heard before. He has a similar kind of central role in the music to what I was referring to as the role of the traps drummer in other jazz groups, very different from most jazz conga players. Maybe a bit similar to Mayuto Correa with a band, getting back to the OP...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlyOTYm_ ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O9uFZ4C ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os-bjJJR ... re=related
I still have to check out Carlos Martinez/Charles Martin and Ramon Lopez, I don't know their work either.
Thanks for letting us know about Percy James and Quartette Tres Bien, my ears have been opened a bit.
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby niallgregory » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:47 am

I play in a jazz trio setting sometimes . Small cafe / hotel gigs where there is no need for a drum kit , or its volume becomes a problem . Congas , bongo and cajon become a great substitute for the kit and we have had some superb gigs with some of Irelands top jazz players . Last sunday one of Irelands best jazz guitar players showed up and sat in for the whole gig . He loved the gig with us and seemed very surprised at how well the congas etc fitted with the standard jazz tunes as well as the bossa tunes etc . I pretty much stick to a solid tumbao ( swung ) for the whole gig . When some of the tunes are that fast its becomes a pretty straight ahead groove anyway . Will record some of the next gig to give you an example . I enjoy playing jazz , but sometimes if there is a traps player the congas can just get in the way imo . Its a much more enjoyable experience for me being the main rhythm instrument in the group and it gives it a unique sound that people arent used to but they seem to love it . Congas , double bass and guitar is a great mix ...
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby congamyk » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:10 pm

JohnnyConga wrote:There is another name for a guy like him a "multi-percussionist" like Airto..who also is not a conga drummer...if it wasnt for guys like Mayuto and Airto, Mtume , Manolo Badrena, Steve Thornton... WE wouldnt have become 'multi-percussionists"(like myself) who were influenced by them...we were just conga drummers...so when we saw these guys playing a multitude of percussion it was very exciting and it also taught me that 'versatility' is the key ....learn it all if you can...let's not be so critical because he don't play rumba or salsa conga....JC


This is a very good post, bringing balance to this thread.

Many of us on congaplace play far more than congas only and there is much more music out there than Cuban and Latin Jazz styles only. as JC said, these and other influences were the inspiration for many of us to learn all of the colors and textures of world music. Anyone who never heard/seen Airto, Naná Vasconcelos, Don Alias and many, many others are missing out on amazing music.
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby Jerry Bembe » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:06 pm

niallgregory wrote:I play in a jazz trio setting sometimes . Small cafe / hotel gigs where there is no need for a drum kit , or its volume becomes a problem . Congas , bongo and cajon become a great substitute for the kit and we have had some superb gigs with some of Irelands top jazz players . Last sunday one of Irelands best jazz guitar players showed up and sat in for the whole gig . He loved the gig with us and seemed very surprised at how well the congas etc fitted with the standard jazz tunes as well as the bossa tunes etc . I pretty much stick to a solid tumbao ( swung ) for the whole gig . When some of the tunes are that fast its becomes a pretty straight ahead groove anyway . Will record some of the next gig to give you an example . I enjoy playing jazz , but sometimes if there is a traps player the congas can just get in the way imo . Its a much more enjoyable experience for me being the main rhythm instrument in the group and it gives it a unique sound that people arent used to but they seem to love it . Congas , double bass and guitar is a great mix ...


Very interesting comment about the use of the ole' TUMBAO.

I recently saw Tito Puente jr. in LA and the conga player played TUMBAO with almost every song. I was a bit dissapointed but not surprised.

The TUMBAO works. We cannot reinvent the wheel but there is room for new ideas as well as JC has made a solid case for us to learn from.
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby bongosnotbombs » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:34 pm

I play a lot of jazz with a trio as well, but usually with bass and horn. Tumbao works well because it is easy to swing, when you need to play those kind of tunes. When you don't need to swing the beat, it opens up the rhythmic choices. The Afro rhythm is great, Guaguanco is a good one sometimes, cha-cha, bolero, I also like a to use an Iyesa high drum part for fast tunes, the up beat drum parts for comparsa which works well when the bass plays downbeats, etc.
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA / Brasil vs Cuban Approach

Postby Isaac » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:40 am

Mayuto did some beautifully tasteful work when he recorded with the late
Brasilian Maestro, Moacir Santos. Some very melodic, understated and subtle work.
He's drawing upon the many styles and colors of Brasil, not Cuba.

Yet left to his own devices, he's not so structured or solid in his solo youtube videos.
In fact he's all over the place at the NAMM video.
It might depend who he's playing with. He's proven himself as very capable in
the past.
My earliest impressions of watching good conga players were
Ramon Lopez with Stan Kenton, Mongo, Ray Mantilla, and then later Don Alias and Daniel Ponce.
Hard to compare anyone with those guys.

This leads me a to some new questions? Perhaps another thread.
Have you ever noticed how Cubans sound when they attempt to play Brasilian music?
How about when Brasilians try to play Cuban or Salsa ?
How have jazz drummers evolved over the years when playing latin or brazilian grooves?

I have made some observations, but would like to hear what others think?

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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby Anonimo » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:45 am

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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby niallgregory » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:08 pm

niallgregory quote
''I play a lot of jazz with a trio as well, but usually with bass and horn. Tumbao works well because it is easy to swing''
To play Jazz in a trio you need a trap drummer when you are using a conga as a foundation it becomes Latin Jazz for Jazz in it self there beats that you need a drummer because a conga or bongo can not create.


That is not my post , you have quoted the wrong person , but as per usual i disagree with you anyway :lol: You DONT need a kit drummer when playing jazz . jazz is a very improvisational music by its very nature . Just because someone is playing percussion instruments in a jazz setting be they conga , bongo , tabla etc etc dosent mean it ceases to be jazz all of a sudden . Its just a different take on it . And just because i am playing a swung tumbao on a charlie parker tune dosent mean it then becomes latin jazz ? How could it unless the bass and piano are playing tumbao / montuno grooves . Fusion music has proved this for the last 30 years , influences from all over the globe have had a huge effect on jazz . Another argument for another day is what exactly is jazz ? Maybe people seem to think it has to have that typical swing feel for it to be jazz but tons of modern jazz is played with totally different feel . We have to start respecting each others opinions on this forum or it just going to go even further downhill than it already has . We ALL have different experiences in different genres from around the globe and long may that continue .. Niall ..
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Re: MAYUTO CORREA

Postby JohnnyConga » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:29 pm

Jazz is very wide and complicated....many styles of Jazz...basically the conga drum in Jazz has been played with a "swing' feel.....though in the 70's when Fusion-Jazz was created by Miles Davis it changed the way cats approached the drums and perc. PS. you couldnt play straight time with Miles, thats not what he wanted from a percussionist(see some of his videos on youtube to see what the percussionists play) examples again Mtume, Don Alias, Big Black, Manolo Badrena, Steve Thornton...etc..yes some used a tumbao at times but more times than not, they created new patterns and had an 'openness'(like Mayuto) to playing..utilizing a variety of percussion to express themselves.. Of course I wouldn't compare a Mayuto to a Mongo...two completely different styles entirely...Now some Cuban musicians have studied Brasilian music...do they play it the same as Brasilians..NO!..Do the Brasilians play Cuban music like Cubans...No!...

Manolo and Mtume had electronics hooked up to their conga drums using barkus berry picks up on the heads that ran to a Bi phaser shifter and an Echo plex...so they were able to play a rhythm have it loop and accompany themselves..NOBODY does that today either...this is unfound technology now...I know this cause I know Manolo and Mtume and saw there setups back in the 70;s...which they utilized in their "jazz styles'...so if you think you did it first...you didnt!...
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