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This may be a really dumb question but what I mean by this is, what does the conga player (or for that matter, the bongo or bell etc.) actually play in Salsa? I was watching the Latin Music USA thing and they talked about the whole birth of Salsa and at the end I still didn’t know the answer.

In say, Songo there is a pattern and variations, mambo the same, Meringue... etc, etc. and each has it’s pre-curser it evolved from, but what is the Conga player actually playing in Salsa?

I went through some material I have and I googled for the answer but nothing really addressed it.

Obviously I didn’t grow up in a Salsa rich atmosphere but I know there are some Salsa cats in this forum and some who where even there at the beginning..

Tell me about Salsa!

It has been my experience that one typically plays the basic tumbao for Salsa.

It is confusing because the various other styles have patterns with a corresponding
name. I have never heard of a pattern called Salsa to be played with Salsa. The
basic Salsa pattern is the tumbao.

Thats kinda what I suspposed was the answer but wasn't sure ...at all. So what then is the difference from mambo, is my next question.

Salsa is a term that was created by the Fania record company in the 1970s as a means of marketing Cuban dance genres (mambo, son montuno, pachanga, chachacha, guajira, etc). The Cuban origins of the music were denied by the NYC Latin music industry for financial and political purposes. For this reason, the term is controversial in some circles. There are musicians and promoters in NYC, Puerto Rico, Venezuela and Colombia who claim that salsa was created in their country.

Salsa has come to mean Cuban-based popular dance music created outside of Cuba. However, in the early 90s Some Cuban musicians began referring to their music as salsa. The term salsa Cubana was coined as a way of setting Cuban music within the greater salsa sphere, while at the same time, maintaining its uniqueness. However, as Cuban popular music in the 90s developed in unique ways that set it far apart from salsa, the term timba became the accepted name for the style of that era.

There is no salsa rhythm per sé. There is a chachacha rhythm, a son montuno rhythm, a mambo rhythm, etc. There are numerous books and DVDs available on the various parts comprising these rhythms.
-David

All those styles are based on Son. Thats why you hear the same thing in all of them, the swing might be different but they come from the same source Cuban Son. Even Dominican Bachata if you listen to the older recordings they sound just like slower Son...

Someone (may have been Machito) once said something to the effect that "Salsa is just Cuban music played badly."

burke wrote:...what does the conga player (or for that matter, the bongo or bell etc.) actually play in Salsa? I was watching the Latin Music USA thing and they talked about the whole birth of Salsa and at the end I still didn’t know the answer.
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Thats kinda what I suspposed was the answer but wasn't sure ...at all. So what then is the difference from mambo, is my next question.

Hi burke,
Generally speaking, the conguero would play a tumbao on one drum, then open up into a 2 conga tumbao in the montuno (higher energy, end section) of the song.
That's the basic answer anyway...

My understanding is that the marcha you would play for a mambo would be a different rhythm to what you would play for a typical salsa song - as David P rightly points out - a son montuno.

Giovanni Hidalgo's video 'Mano a Mano' (DCI Music) has a good demonstration (as well as written notation) for a mambo pattern. Once you hear how this pattern is played then listen to a mambo song you will understand better how it fits.

Would be interested to hear what marcha pattern others here would play for a mambo tune?

regards
Pavlo

I suspected that it would be rooted in son and that tumbao would be the prime suspect, but the specific answer given by pavloconga is the most ... well ... specific. I'd love to hear what JC says about this.

The only thing I got from my books is #3 Tomas Cruz where it says the closest thing to Timba is Salsa.

pavloconga wrote:The mambo is a different rhythm to the tumbao.

Hey Pavlo,
Don't you mean to say that the mambo is a different rhythm than the son montuno? Although both mambo and tumbao are musical terms that have multiple meanings depending upon the context and era, in North America tumbao is generally understood to mean both the bass part and the conga drum part used in son montuno, mambo, etc. In Cuba, they call the band conga drum part marcha and the bass and piano parts tumbao. Does Giovanni actually say something to the effect that "the mambo is different than tumbao"?
-David

This guy's video is labeled "Tumbao, the most versatile pattern in the world"

He probably is not far wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9WrWNR8yvg

burke wrote: what does the conga player (or for that matter, the bongo or bell etc.) actually play in Salsa?

Burke,
Since you mentioned the Tomas Cruz books, check out page 45 of Vol. 1; Part 6: Marcha Exercises:
"...the most basic salsa marcha, often called tumbao, goes like this..."

All the salsa rhythm section parts are covered in Rebeca Mauleon's Salsa Guidebook. Page 66:
"The repeated pattern of the conga drums is referred to as tumbao, and with a few exceptions, is the standard pattern used for the most rhythmic styles of salsa."
Page 69:
"The tumbao pattern is used for many rhythmic styles, including son, son-montuno, mambo, cha-cha-chá, guaracha, guajira and others."

From my own book The Clave Matrix, page 96:
"The conga drum tumbao is the basic part used in son montuno and its descendants such as salsa. Notice how the conga tumbao is based on the previous marímbula part."

Until the advent of the sub-genres son montuno and mambo in the late 30s, the conga drum was not used in either the son groups or the charangas. The marímbula is a giant kalimba-like instrument that was sat upon while playing the bass lines (tumbaos) in the early son and changui.

If books don't do it for you, there are many DVDs and of course Youtube is exploding.
-David

Well Puente said ....Salsa is sauce!...in Cuba there is no such thing and they are adamant about it..They do not call their music salsa though like David said they use the term "Salsa Cubana" to distinguish their style from others..Now Mambo is a "Dance" form from the 50's which of course tumbao is the rhythm pattern for it at various tempos...that last video does not do the tumbao any justice the way the young man is playing it, sorry...and his 'floreos' aren't exactly there either..the term Mambo was let go with the advent of the new generations of musicians and dancers of the 60's, hence the term Masucci came up with was Salsa...and has stuck to this day....so Mambo is a Dance form and Salsa is one of the descriptions of OUR latin music here in the states...yes the tumbao maybe the most versatile rhythmic pattern around "JC" Johnny Conga

cubans also refer to Salsa as casino do they not ?

niallgregory wrote:cubans also refer to Salsa as casino do they not ?

Yes, they refer to what we in the states call salsa dancing as casino. It's only a dance term though and not a musical term.
-David

Most musicans i know in cuba refered to the music as salsa and didnt have a problem with it tbh .i think its outside the island that some people have a problem with the term .It was a great catch all phrase for all latin music in new york at the time .Im not a big fan of the term as it brings up the image of people learning to dance in dance classes .I played some gigs to dance classes in the past and the salsa crowd would rather dance to a cd than a live group .Any change in rhythm would completely ruin the vibe for them Not sure what its like in the states were there its lots of great dance bands that would cater purely for the dancers .