Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

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Postby ElRey » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:57 pm

Is it advisable to use metronones for beginners during conga practice sessions? If so, which types (brands, features, digital). Thanks in advance...
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Postby Amber » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:51 pm

Hi,

as it is important to stay in time a metronome can be a useful help. I personally do not like them because of their monoton, mechanical aspects. I think it is more helpful to try to establish a kind of inner metronome. As most patterns for conga come in 16. notatation what means the "1 e and a 2 e and a ....thing I do the following exercises: instead of counting 1 e and a which makes a knot in the tongue I use syllabes: i count Ka Le Ba Shi and play along with that. Mon Te Zu Ma is also nice and works for me. I try to speak this syllabes as steady as possible and step with my foot on every beat what means the 1, 2, 3, 4 or the Ka/Mon of my syllabes. This way speaking and tapping I do for example B B B B O O O O and so on. For me this works well.

Best regards,

:) Amber
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Postby Thomas » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:13 pm

Hello!
As a former thread showed, there are different opinions about using metronomes:
http://www.congaplace.com/cgi-bin....74;st=0

For a beginner, I would suggest to care more for the different sounds (open, slap, open slap, muff, bass, etc) first. After that, IMHO a metronome can be very helpful.

As for the question which one to buy, I can recommend the tama rhythm watch (my drummer's useing it) and the yamaha clickstation (that's what I'm using, with "feel the beat"- function, good for noisy stages).
All the best,
Tom
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Postby Mano Teo » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:54 pm

I am an intermediate player and using a metronome has helped me a lot to develop steady time. I also vocalize the subdivisions to myself like in the above post.

That being said, if you are interested in playing with a real "Afro-Latin swing", especially in the folkloric styles, you need to play along with recordings. The subdivisions of each beat are not straight, but they're not swung in the same way that North American jazz, funk, etc. are swung either. Instead the "e + a" are slightly rushed after the beat, then there's a slight pause before the next downbeat so that often you can't quite tell if it's triplet or sixteenth note subdivisions if not all of the subdivisions are played. Michael Spiro calls this "FIX" (as in halfway between Four and sIX -- see his new book). I have done exercises to samba recordings, since the caixa plays all of the subdivisions with that "Afro-swing".

I realize that the previous paragraph might be confusing, so just remember this: the best way to get the feel is to play along, and it will also help you develop steady time.
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby conguero » Mon May 19, 2008 3:49 pm

Hello

I fully agree with you Mano but although playing along with some of your favourite music is great I believe that a metronome is a vital part of your kit. I find it very useful when practising tones and rhythms. I use mine for at least an hour a day with my basic exercises and I could not live without it. I use a little Boss Dr Beat DB30 which has a good clave feature built in.

I'd also say that playing in a band rather than your bedroom will push you a lot further, a lot quicker.

Peace
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby JohnnyConga » Mon May 19, 2008 6:18 pm

Metronome is a good thing but also do not give up on "tapping" with your foot or some way that u can internalize...time and pulse....u cant take a metronome on stage when u playm so u have to learn to internalize and "become the metronome!"...Johnny Conga
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby Paqui » Mon May 19, 2008 6:39 pm

I'm a beginner as well and IMHO, as Thomas stated, after you feel confident with your technique, a metronome is a key component to improving it.

An affordable metronome (the one I have) is the KORG KDM2, which includes Son and Rumba claves [3-2,2-3]
Here is one (which I'm not selling, I just found you one) : http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-DIGITAL-METRON ... dZViewItem

Also, the Percussion Studio is very nice software that we'll help you a lot.
http://www.henrykellner.com/PercussionStudio/

Good Luck!!

Paqui
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby bongosnotbombs » Mon May 19, 2008 6:47 pm

I personally prefer using a drum machine to a metronome.
Used drum machines can be had for the same price as that
metronome listed above.

I use an old Alessis SR16. It's advantage is it is fully programable.
Claves, bells, entire song rhythms can be programmed according to whatever
you need in whatever time signature. 7/8? 3/4? no problem.

240 sounds and each sound can be set to a different volume. I just think
they are much more versatile as a practice aid.
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby Whopbamboom » Mon May 19, 2008 7:29 pm

I think the ultimate goal is to develop a really good internal metronome that also allows you to play with feeling for the music.

I should pretext the following by saying that I currently do not play in the context of Afro-cuban polyrhythms, but rather in any time signatures that can be notated with standard western music notation. That is, 4/4, 2/4, 6/8, 3/8, 9/8, 7/4, 5/4, 12/8, 7/8, plus changing meter (a measure or two of one time signature and then a measure or two of another time signature, changing as desired, etc.)

After quite a few years of playing myself, (as well as drumming along on the steering wheel to many different types of music and styles), I've developed a really good sense of timing. I do still check myself against a metronome once in a while for "staying in check", but my internal metronome allows me to change tempo by say, a beat or two per minute at will. This has become important to me, as some types of music that I play actually REQUIRE a more organic feel to them (very SLIGHT) tempo changes (depending on the section of the song or the vocal styling/dynamics), and do not sound right with mechanical timing.

The next thing I'll be challenging myself to do is to be able to play either SLIGHTLY AHEAD of the beat or SLIGHTLY behind the beat, without speeding up or slowing down the tempo. But I can curently play some pretty syncopated stuff and stay right on, without the use of the metronome while I'm playing. And I can sense if others in the group are slightly speeding up or slowing down by a beat or two per minute.
I attribute this to the fact that I never lose sight of where the downbeat of each measure is... and my internal sense of timing automatically is able to subdivide the measure up into the beats, the half-beats, and the halves of each half beat. And I can divide each beat or half beat up into triplets or duplets if necessary. Hopefully later I'll be able to do quintuplets or septuplets effectively, but for now that remains a challenge as well.
If I tried to play what I play now, but back when I was a beginner-- and with a metronome in hand--- I probably couldn't keep track and I'd fall out of rhythm.

So I can't stress this enough: The ultimate goal is to develop your own sense of internal rhythm... an internal metronome if you will. I recommend that you use a metronome AND your sense of counting to start solidifying your sense of where the beats are, but that you also concentrate on being able to subdivide or to syncopate those beats without needing the metronome to tell you when and where to play what's in between the beats. And then wean yourself from the metronome so that you don't need it! Periodically check your sense of timing with it, but work toward the goal of being able to sense the beats without it... even to the point of being able to alter the timing when necessary. Never lose sense of your feeling for the music. Don't rely on the metronome so much that you become mechanical.

In short, the ultimate goal should be to be able to play anything you want without the use of the metronome. But a metronome can help in the beginning and also as a periodic check-up.
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby umannyt » Mon May 19, 2008 8:29 pm

Very well said, Whombamboom! It's all about developing and maintaining an internal metronome. For some, it's a natural gift; for others, it has to be learned.
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby bongosnotbombs » Mon May 19, 2008 8:53 pm

Whopbamboom wrote:I think the ultimate goal is to develop a really good internal metronome that also allows you to play with feeling for the music.

I should pretext the following by saying that I currently do not play in the context of Afro-cuban polyrhythms, but rather in any time signatures that can be notated with standard western music notation.



I practice a lot with Afro-Cuban stuff, so the main advantage for the drum machine for me is to be able to program the claves and the various bell pattern rhythms that are used as references for all the players in an afro-cuban rhythm.
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby Gallichio » Tue May 20, 2008 7:07 am

02355.jpg
02355.jpg (5.37 KiB) Viewed 6879 times
A Metronome is a must. It will help you in a ton of ways. I use the Korg MM1. It is tiny. It clips on your ear and is not very expensive. You can find them on e-bay. The problem with most metronomes is they can't be heard over the drums but you will not have that problem with the Korg MM1.
All the Best!
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby Whopbamboom » Tue May 20, 2008 7:52 am

bongosnotbombs wrote:
Whopbamboom wrote:I think the ultimate goal is to develop a really good internal metronome that also allows you to play with feeling for the music.

I should pretext the following by saying that I currently do not play in the context of Afro-cuban polyrhythms, but rather in any time signatures that can be notated with standard western music notation.



I practice a lot with Afro-Cuban stuff, so the main advantage for the drum machine for me is to be able to program the claves and the various bell pattern rhythms that are used as references for all the players in an afro-cuban rhythm.


I would sure like to try the polyrhythmic stuff. I'll have to pick up one of those programmable machines one of these days.


hey-- anyone notice this was an old thread? Probably pays to look at old threads once in a while.
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby lpcongaplayer » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:55 pm

Gallichio wrote:
02355.jpg
A Metronome is a must. It will help you in a ton of ways. I use the Korg MM1. It is tiny. It clips on your ear and is not very expensive. You can find them on e-bay. The problem with most metronomes is they can't be heard over the drums but you will not have that problem with the Korg MM1.


That's awesome! :shock: I just ordered one!
Billy: Mommy! I want to be a drummer when I grow up!
Mommy: Now, Billy. You know you can't do both.
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Re: Metronones - Congas - Using metronones for conga practice

Postby bongosnotbombs » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:04 pm

I use a drum machine, I can program over 200 sounds, to any time signature I want,
I mostly do folkloric claves and bell patterns. It's attached to an amplifier so I can make
it as loud as I like. When I want it to be quiet I use earphones.
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