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Posted: **Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:09 pm**

Hi all,
playing Batas is very important in order to play better Congas, Bongos and all Afro-cuban percussions.
This is what my teacher says.
I'm going to start Batas leraning, but if we haven't got Batas, how can we practice?
Hasta pronto.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:32 pm**

I have a question for you brother Cuidado,..from where did you get that stuff?,who told you that.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:13 pm**

Hi zaragemca,
it's Gustavo Ovalles who told me this stuff.
He thinks that the batas is the "mother" instrument.
Hasta pronto.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:06 pm**

He is wrong for the following reasons.The Bata is the mother drum of the Yorubas Civilization which have nothing to do with the Bantus(which is from where the conga and conga pattern's come from),and bongos were incorporated from the Carabalies(Abakua), which have nothing to do with the Yorubas and the Bantus.In Africa they were adversaries with differents customs and lenguages,and in Cuba there were top conga players which never played Bata,and Bataleros which never learned to play congas.And if he is cuban.. he should now that the Bata required some commitments from the players,it is not just to be good in congas or bongos.Gerry Zaragemca.

Edited By zaragemca on 1104952314

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:50 am**

"he should now that the Bata required some commitments from the players,it is not just to be good in congas or bongos."

Wow! Zaragemca, can you please expand on this commitment and its requirement. It sounds to me like some kind of ritual, cult like devotion. Growing up in New York in the mid 60s I heard a friend saying something about having his congas baptize by a Santero so that he could learn how to play them good. I did not pay much attention to it. Is this a common practice?

Thank you

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:20 am**

Yo Untaltumbador: My tumbas are also blessed by a Santera. My reasons for this however were not so I could learn better so many years ago, they were for a more personal nature and out of respect that it was done.

Now, Obviously Bata are ceremonial drums from the Yoruba. If you are involved in the culture that which they are derived from, then yes, you are required to have a commitment to all that is that culture.

However in todays modern world and ever developing musical genres, bata playing in the non traditional method, using drums that are not "tambores de ceremonia" (ceremonial drums) bata playing has become available and open to all nationalities and sexes.

Anyone can go online or into a music store and buy books or videos with information onhow to play certain pattern or "llamadas/toques/Ibodus".

One should never play ceremonial drums if not a part of the culture.

My deepest respect to the Yoruba customs.

I myself, never use my ceremonial drums for any gigs I may have with bands nor do I use them to jam with other musicians, that would be an insult to all that which they represent.

I use non ceremonial bata for circumstances like that.

Back to ORIGINAL TOPIC, knowledge of bata rhythems has NOTHING to do with your conga playing.
A great batalero does not necessarilly make you an instant conga expert and vice versa, as said by Zaragemca.

Edited By ABAKUA on 1105041153

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:36 am**

Hi amigos,

If the question is :

playing Batas is very important in order to play better Congas, Bongos and all Afro-cuban percussions.

Technical opinion :

In my opinion, you can play salsa without bata knowledge, but bata is polyrhythms and independances, it's allways good to improve your feeling.

Cultural opinion :

Bantu and Yoruba culture is not the same.

Religion opinion :

If you have respect for this you can be inititate. I think good spirit help for concentration, meditation and you gonna be better player.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:56 am**

I want to say to be honest, that I'm not a bata specialist, I'm learning with a good Cuban teacher and I know a few Elubanche, Chachalokpafun, nongo, Obatala. I'm learning some variation for the conversation between Itotele and IYa.
I'm very happy in this rhythms and I hope I can sing one or two yoruba songs one day.
I still don't have personal bata drums, I wanna buy it soon.
No tengo dinero ohoh...

I'm gonna ask my teacher but I ask here too. My teacher call the 6/8 afro clave, clave Negra. This is african clave, but what
tribe is the origine : Yoruba, bantu...others ?

I ask the question, because my teacher play this clave with claps when we learn the rhythms congas and bata.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:36 pm**

Hi,
I just say that we can be a better conguero if we can play Batas.
I don't say that we can't be a great conguero if we don't play Batas.
i think that Batas is a great instrument in order to develop our playing.
hasta pronto.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:25 pm**

To play Bata drums outside of the "religous" aspect of them has become part of our musical landscape here in the states. Remember they are "religous articles" once "Blessed", and should only be played by those who have "OMO AnYa". But those that aren't "blessed" have been used in recording sessions and in live concerts, as an "addition" to the music. I have "played" Bata drums, having "studied" with Lazaro Alfonso(original conga player for Irakere and Brother of the late "El Nino" of Irakere), in Miami. But I would never call myself a "Batalero". It is part of the Lucumi/Yoruba peoples lifestyle and tradition, so if you really want to play you have to "absorb" the whole of the Yoruba music and tradition. Which could also mean making "Santo/Ocha" in the religion of Lucumi/Santeria. It can take a lifetime to learn all the Ibodus in Bata playing. I enjoy playing Bata drums and utilize them in my percussion ensamble. I play Itotele-the "hot seat" as they like to say.....peace....."JC" Johnny Conga..here is a photo of us playing our Bata drums...I'm on your right....deep into it.....

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 24_jpg.jpg

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:54 pm**

For Colacao, what is the clave in 6/8 which you are making reference?,in what rhythms or pattern it is played.

Edited By zaragemca on 1105127848

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:26 pm**

Hi Zaragemca,

In fact I don't know, because in my Western approach

maybe it's

1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
x x x x x

or

1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3
x x x x x

or

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
x x x x x

etc...

He claps the clave and sing the toques of each 3 tambores at the same time. Of course he claps the beats, tap the foot on the beats etc...and that's help me a lot.

I think the time signature is usefull if some want to write the rhythm.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:07 am**

Que tal Abakua, tell me, to get the drums blessed by a Santero/a, is this done for a fee, say out of novelty, or does one have to be a practitioner of Santeria?

As far as the Bata's commitment is concerned; it is not to the instrument but to the Religion that uses the instrument? If so, then, it makes sense to me in that context.

I appreciated your explanation .

Thank you

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:31 am**

Colacao,the Guaguanco clave,but originally the Guaguanco was written in 2/4 like the Son and later 4/4 time signature.

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:50 am**

Si Zaragemca,

That's tru, sometimes it's strange because the way you think the rhythm, change the feel. The best is not to think, but only to feel

Is it correct, the Carnaval rhythms are still 2/4 ?

Why this change in 4/4 ?

Gracias

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Play Batas is very important